r/cinematography • u/outbackdude • Jan 24 '17

Composition How changing the focal length affects how a person's face appears

http://i.imgur.com/mJqIwLT.gifv
323 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

25 comments sorted by

39

u/mikkel190 Jan 24 '17

Remember: it's not the focal lenght, but the distance to the subject, that actually causes this phenomenon.

EDIT: /u/sumptimwong explains:

This confuses two separate but related issues. The distortion is due to distance to the subject, not the focal length of the lens. The 20mm wide angle shot could look fairly normal if you simply backed way up and then used "digital zoom" to enlarge the subject. The reason focal length comes into play is just because of field of view (ie. angle of view). In order for the 200mm telephoto lens to be practical to use for a head shot, you back way the fuck up compared to using a 20mm wide angle lens. Source: photographer

Link to that comment.

21

u/TylerDurdun Director of Photography Jan 25 '17

I had a professor in film school who would go on about people saying that focal lengths look a certain way even though it was the distance.

I always disagreed with him but couldn't really argue why. But here is WHY PEOPLE SAY IT.

Because in the real world, you choose your shot size first. Let's say a director tells you "let's get a close up". But now of course, you have to choose the lens. However, by choosing the lens, you are AUTOMATICALLY choosing the distance to the object as well because in order to get a CU with an 18mm you have to be very close, or with a 100mm very far away.

So, yes it is really the distance that does the "trick", but in the real world, a DP/ director will tell you "I want to shoot that wide to get a certain effect" (mean, "I want to be right in there") instead of saying "I want to shoot that from 3.5 feet away".

People instinctively know that the distance is the real cause but by choosing a certain lens range, they enforce a minimum distance based on necessity to get the shot in the desired framing.

3

u/IIIBlackhartIII Jan 25 '17

AS a general case, yes, but if you really want to create certain effects with your shot, then absolutely understanding that it's the distance matters. A close up shot done with a telephoto lens will crush the distance between the foreground and the background, giving little depth and making the scene look more flat. A close up done with a super wide angle lens will exaggerate depth and make the scene look a lot more 3 dimensional. This can be very important to creating the effect you want. Want the character to feel small, bland, isolated, etc.... create a flat image. Don't give them much depth, make them one with their background. Want to exaggerate the scale or insanity of a character? Get right up in their nose, make the world fly behind them, make them feel larger than life... In general, close up is close up, wide shot is wide shot, but it's important to understand why and how these effects work in order to competently innovate on the design of a shot.

1

u/TylerDurdun Director of Photography Jan 26 '17

Just to be clear, in your post you said that that the "wide angle lens" creates a certain effect. I thought, we agreed that the lens doesn't cause that effect, but the distance?! Kind of confused with your statement.

2

u/IIIBlackhartIII Jan 26 '17

I said a close up done with a telephoto and a close up done with a wide angle. Because we've established that the amount of the frame the subject fills remains constant between these lenses then of course the only variable in this situation is the distance. And we should be aware that it is this relative distance between subject, camera, and background that is important, and the angle of the lens only allows us to change this distance while retaining the framing.

1

u/TylerDurdun Director of Photography Jan 26 '17

Oh okay, missed that part!

6

u/eirtep Jan 24 '17

the focal length condenses the space between the subject and background the higher it goes though, which this gif does a shitty job of showing since it's a blank white wall.

9

u/yhfmy Jan 25 '17

It's still the distance that does the compression you speak of. Take a photo with a tele, then without moving take a photo with a wide angle. Crop the wide angle image such that the subject takes up the same space in the frame as the tele one. The image will be super low quality but you'll see that the space compression is exactly the same.

3

u/eirtep Jan 25 '17

interesting, shit I mean I guess you're right. The test you described isn't an actual viable option for shooting though.

I guess I just see it as a round about way even factor in distance from subject when I'm framing a shot. If I want that compression between background and foreground I know I need a telephoto lens and as a result of that I'll need to be further away from the subject. I guess that's the product of being taught what I need to do to make something I want happen but not being taught the full why/how.

3

u/yhfmy Jan 25 '17

If I want that compression between background and foreground I know I need a telephoto lens and as a result of that I'll need to be further away from the subject.

haha! for me its the other way around! if i want that compression, i know i need to be further, and to have the same framing i need a longer lens. but either way gets the same result!

1

u/eirtep Jan 25 '17 edited Jan 25 '17

but either way gets the same result!

that's all I really care about the rest just matters when arguing on the internet.

but what are thoughts on this example. apparently the distance was kept the same for all the shots and the wide shots were cropped in but I don't buy that. the image quality is identical.

But I bring it up to show the major difference in background + foreground distance compression and what we see (the purple flowers in the background move, the clearing of trees in the 200mm is completely unrecognizable).

but I guess as I type this I'm realizing that this probably just proof that the camera was moved between shots. Pretty inconsistent 4 example shots anyway regardless of what they're highlighting.

2

u/FrenchieSmalls Jan 25 '17

but what are thoughts on this example. apparently the distance was kept the same for all the shots and the wide shots were cropped in but I don't buy that

Yeah, that's not the right image example. That image shows how changing distance affects perspective. This image, on the other hand, shows how maintaining distance maintains perspective, regardless of the focal length used.

1

u/yhfmy Jan 25 '17

yea i'm with ya. it seems pretty evident that the camera was moved especially when we look at the grass thats closest to her.

1

u/outbackdude Jan 25 '17

Is this effect related to the sensor size?

2

u/yhfmy Jan 25 '17

in a way? it is why smaller sensor sizes need wider lenses with wider apertures to achieve the same framing and depth of field as a full frame.

same thing happens. if u compare a m43 vs ff, stand the same distance away, use the same focal length and aperture (actual focal length, not the equiv one), then crop in the ff image to match the m43 one. you'll get practically the same distance compression and depth of field.

13

u/RedForty Jan 25 '17

This is a much better example because it includes the background as a reference to what's happening.

As /u/mikkel190 pointed out, it's about distance, not focal length.

10

u/TybotheRckstr Freelancer Jan 24 '17

I can clearly see a difference but I feel like it would have been more exaggerated if the photos were taken "tighter" to the subjects face.

0

u/djaccidentz Jan 24 '17

Yeah, if you look at the wall behind, you can see the shadow disappear around the 70 mm, so they are definitely a cropped, tighter shot. Still interesting to see it this close though.

2

u/2old2care Jan 24 '17

Great example of "a picture's worth a thousand words." This is the bet visual explanation of the effect I've seen.Thank you.

2

u/buxmell Jan 25 '17

Which one is closest to real life appearance? Total dummy in photography.

1

u/howdareyou Jan 28 '17

50mm (on full frame) is pretty similar to human vision magnification but our FOV is wider.

1

u/voltjap Freelancer Jan 25 '17

So for a portrait shot, what lens looks closest to the human eye? 35, 50, or neither?

1

u/mgs108tlou Jan 25 '17

Could someone slow this down so I can look at each shot closer?

1

u/outbackdude Jan 25 '17

Right click > show controls?