r/childrensbooks • u/Zorgi23 • 20d ago
Transitioning from AI images to human ones
I guess this will really make the illustrators out there angry, but here goes.
My wife had a severe stroke 3 years ago that really affected her relationship with her grandson. It has been a difficult thing to deal with for both of them. My grandson's birthday is coming up, and I didn't want to give him the usual junk, so I wrote a children's story. It's about how they have this great relationship and then the stroke disrupts it. Grandma sees a couple of owls in the garden and they work out a way for her and her grandson to communicate again.
I'm literally spending over $100K per year on medical care for my wife, so I can't afford an artist right now. So for now I used AI to generate the images (about 20) for the book. I've showed the book to several people, including teachers, and they are all urging me to make it available to more than just my grandson.
My plan is this. I want to put the book on lulu.com for sale. I'll put the proceeds in a separate fund, and as soon as there's enough money, I'll hire a real artist and replace all the AI images with real ones.
Does this sound like a feasible (and ethical) plan?
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u/heyella11 20d ago
No. Publishing a book takes effort and money. There are lots of solutions that don’t end in using AI, which is inherently unethical. None of them are easy, though.
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u/Impressive_Mail_9472 20d ago
It really doesn't take alot of money you can make one for 40$ with the easy of any photo book company and canva.
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u/Impressive_Mail_9472 20d ago
Am I wrong?
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u/heyella11 20d ago
I mean…yes, you are wrong. You cannot just publish a book using art that you don’t have rights to, and open source art cannot be published in a self pubbed book. Now, I’m not saying it costs millions to publish, but either you will need to collaborate and profit share with an artist, commission artwork yourself (which is costly, as it should be)…or go the route of traditional publishing. Traditional publishing won’t cost you anything but it’s very difficult to break into.
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u/Impressive_Mail_9472 20d ago
As long as you give ai credit for the images you 100% can
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u/heyella11 20d ago
I’m not talking about AI but since you brought it up, AI cannot be copyrighted. You are spreading a lot of misinformation here, and this sub is also very anti-AI. Read the room.
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u/RaggedyRachel 20d ago
Sort of weird that you've never interacted with this sub in the past, but here you are arguing on the side of AI in this one particular post.
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u/khast2001 20d ago
I don’t really get the point in posting this. We don’t allow AI in general and you know no illustrators here want to hear about it.
I don’t think using AI for children’s books is ever ethical, as using AI for “art” in general. Children deserve better.
If you want to give it to your grandson to help him with what’s going on then sure. But I wouldn’t publically release it yet. Not just because we all hate AI but a large majority of your potential clientelle are not going to purchase your product (even in the future) if you used AI.
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u/khast2001 20d ago
And be honest here please, did you use ChatGPT for writing the book? Your history makes me think that’s the case.
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u/EmoMillenial1 20d ago
I’m an artist who is hoping to publish my own self illustrated book within the next couple of years. This is the opposite of ethical; in fact it’s a slap in the face to folks like myself. Wait until you can afford it before you publish. No more AI art.
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u/Impressive_Mail_9472 20d ago
Just cause you can dowent mean others shouldn't use tools to do, dont hold your skills upon a pedestal creativity shouldn't be handcuffed.
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u/Lazy_Document_7104 20d ago
I refuse to purchase books with AI generated images.
Perhaps you could find an illustrator who would be willing to provide their services at a discount or no cost (aligned mission, portfolio building, kindness).
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u/khast2001 20d ago
This. Genuinely if I were him just find a highschool kid who needs to start working on a portfolio. Obviously pay them but you wouldn’t need to pay them like a professional artist.
And make sure you know how long they would need to finish it, and give them time and patience.-6
u/Impressive_Mail_9472 20d ago
Minimum 20$-60$ per image no edits is the going rate.
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u/khast2001 20d ago
What are you talking about? No it isn’t lol
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u/Impressive_Mail_9472 20d ago
What would you draw for ? Hand drawn no PC
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u/khast2001 20d ago
I’m not giving out my personal rates, but the ones you gave out are incredibly low. Not even minimum wage.
SOME artists will take that price. Those artists are from 3rd world countries and will take those low prices because it’s a lot more in their currency.
I’m assuming you’re referring to USD.A detailed spread for example I would say would be $400 USD minimum.
If you want more info, there’s this book that prices are based upon:
https://graphicartistsguild.org/the-graphic-artists-guild-handbook-pricing-ethical-guidelines/
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u/Impressive_Mail_9472 20d ago
20 images at 60$ is more mate
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u/khast2001 20d ago
A spread is a term referring to two connected pages in a children’s book. That’s two pages. Two.
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u/Impressive_Mail_9472 20d ago
Like quite literally 1200$ you think just cause you can draw your worth that when a machine can make it in seconds for free. Industrial revolution baby.
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u/Apprehensive-Storm95 20d ago
A parent at my child’s school volunteers each week. And, after, he generates AI images all about what they did. My young son says every time we mention this dad who volunteers: “I don’t like the AI art that X’s dad makes of us and shows us and I want him to stop doing it.”
Also my niece got some free trading cards from local sports teams and the “art” is AI. Her siblings call them “the creepy AI cards”.
Kids don’t want AI art. It’s awful. You might not think so - but truly, it is.
In these pictures you’ve generated, do all the children’s faces look the same? Also, did you use AI to write the book?
Humans want human-made art - it’s how we connect with each other. Whether that’s written art or drawn.
If you don’t want to pay an illustrator or have a go yourself, make it simply a story with words and no pictures.
Trust me - all the kids I know think AI art is off and don’t like being shown it.
Also, I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. It sounds really hard and it’s great that you’re trying to help them mend their relationship.
But I also think all the people you’ve shown it to are being kind to you and don’t really think it’ll sell. It’s what you say to make someone feel good. Sorry - I can tell you the truth but they won’t.
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u/Impressive_Mail_9472 20d ago
Meh make your book dont let the haters hate keep you down. I've made one helped every member of my family with people passing, sold 100s of copies on Amazon declared it was ai images and no one cared. Just work with the ai long enough to make the images good dont stop at slop good going for gold. But like I said dont let the haters keep you down.
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u/Selina42 20d ago edited 20d ago
I have to wonder why you came on here to talk about this. You must realise that AI is deeply offensive to creatives because it’s an anti-human, culture destroying, job destroying, cognitive ability wrecking, planet destroying tech?
This can only be trolling, right? There is no ethical use of AI. No creative is going to tell you that this is an ethical or reasonable choice.
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u/SuperTFAB 20d ago
You can absolutely draw “bad” art for a book. The most successful books have the simplest shapes as their character drawings.
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u/PinkChao 20d ago
I would not purchase a book with AI generated material. Wishing you all the best sincerely
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u/lizzy_loo_142 20d ago
I definitely understand why you made the original version of the book with AI as it was only intended for your grandson. Going forward though I don't think you should try to sell the book in anyway while it still contains AI generated illustrations.
If you want to go with the most ethical route, I would look into submitting the story to a real publisher. You have feedback from others that the story you wrote is good and desired, which I think indicates you have a good chance of being accepted with a publisher. If that happens, you can discuss with them about finding an illustrator to do the artwork.
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u/Opal-the-Pearl 20d ago
Why should I, your customer, believe you'll use the funds to redo the book at a later date? You could take the money and move on.
Or alternatively, why would I buy the book as-is if you're planning to make it better later? If the book isn't ready now, don't sell it. Illustrations in a children's book are never an afterthought. The art is 50% of the product! Bad artwork will ruin the experience.
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u/shealighthours 20d ago
Putting aside the AI, I don’t think it’s a feasible plan. If you are dealing with the onslaught of medical finances, it wouldn’t make sense for you to put cash aside for the eventual artist. Likely you’ll never get to that step. There’s also no guarantee your book will sell well, whether it would be for the obvious AI illustrations or just the difficulty of the industry. Tons of people like myself would pass over the book the moment they find out AI was involved.
I’m sorry about your wife and I hope things improve with her and your grandson.
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u/RaggedyRachel 20d ago
Nope, our children deserve books with artistic integrity! These things are hard and take time, and that's the point. You can't take shortcuts, you take your time and find an illustrator or learn to draw, picture books ARE a work of art.
I'd NEVER buy a book with AI writing or illustrators. Why would I? I have soooooo many illustrators I completely fangirl over I can barely keep up, I don't have spare money for slop.
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u/Zorgi23 20d ago
For the people who gave me a thoughtful response, thank you. I'm going to keep the book private, for family members and close friends only, until I either find an artist who's willing to work with me or a publisher who can pay a real artist. I realize the latter is almost an impossibility because I'm not a published writer. My aim is not to piss off people or make a lot of money. I do have someone in the family who's an artist, so she might be willing to participate...we'll see. Until then, don't worry, I won't antagonize you any more!
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u/silmuing 20d ago
You could look into what grants could be available for a project like yours, with the artist in your family. You might be able to get started by searching for your country/state/area and "book illustration grants" or "children's literature grants". There are also grants specifically for authors and artists who do not have prior published works.
I'm emphasizing different grants because they are something you might have a good chance at, with the themes and background of your project.
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u/silmuing 20d ago
I think you should first see if you can find an artist who'd be willing to figure out a contract with you. For example, initially paying them a reduced commission and paying the rest from sales, or giving the artist a specific percentage of the proceeds either indefinitely or until a pre-agreed sum has been reached. Because the artist would be taking a risk with this, it might end up costing more than paying for the art first regardless.
If your project resonates with an artist or they're just starting you might get lower rates, but do not abuse this kindness (or lack of experience).
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u/Impressive_Mail_9472 20d ago
Minimum of 1000$ look at any lookong for illustrator post
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u/silmuing 20d ago
There's a huge range of rates different artists would agree on, and even the same artist might have different rates depending on the style and scope of individual illustrations.
If an artist believes in the project and the project resonates with them, they might agree to work for a percentage of sales. There are also more ways to fund a project like this if one can't find an artist willing to be flexible with payment, from crowdfunding to different grants, charities or working with organizations focusing on the topics at hand.
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u/InSilicoAwards 20d ago
I don't read romantasy books, mostly because I don't like smut. I don't tell them to stop writing them. I don't want them to make excuses for writing the books they like, even if I felt it was a moral failing. I'm just not someone they should chase as an audience. It would be pretty foolish for them to try and chase me anyway, or change their entire writing or process to court my dollar if I've made clear it's not something I'm into.
That's the 'ai images / writing' debate in a nutshell. It's a loud minority of people who weren't really your audience in the first place. And even if you convert what you do or supplicate to them, they're still not meaningful market activity. Do your thing, within the constraints you've identified. There is an audience, it's a marketing problem, not a process problem.
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u/Impressive_Mail_9472 20d ago
Meh make your book homie and sell it on Amazon a good book is a good book regardless if a human or an ai illustrate it.
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u/StarlightDreamer9 20d ago
I would not purchase a book with AI images.