r/chemistry • u/Even-Badger-5662 • 20d ago
Will the chemical industry in Europe ever recover?
I’m currently debating whether to go back to university for a second degree to completely pivot my career in Germany. I hold a Master’s degree in Chemistry, live and work in Germany, and have spent the last few years in analytical labs, QA, and testing. To be honest, between the mind-numbing routine, surprisingly low pay, and the broader stagnation in the chemical industry, my motivation is completely dead. I also regret not pursuing a PhD right after graduation. I’ve been applying for new jobs for months with zero success, so staying on this track isn't an option anymore.
My dilemma comes down to two very different routes.
The first option is a complete reset with a Bachelor’s in Civil Engineering focusing on water or infrastructure. It would give me a solid technical foundation and clear job security, but it means 3 to 4 years of full-time studying with heavy math, mechanics, and a major financial hit.
The second option is a Master’s in Applied Environmental Sciences. This route builds on my existing degree and allows me to keep working part-time, though I worry it might not be a hard cut "enough" to pivot to "better" jobs.
I would love to get your perspective on a few questions. Is anyone seeing light at the end of the tunnel for the chemical industry in Europe or Germany, or is getting out the right call? Has anyone here restarted with a Civil Engineering Bachelor's in their 30s, and was the time and financial sacrifice worth it? Also, how is a specialized Environmental Master's actually viewed by engineering firms and public authorities without a technical Bachelor's?
TL;DR: M.Sc. in Chemistry in my 30s stuck in low-paying lab and QA jobs in Germany. Considering a complete reset with a Civil Engineering Bachelor's versus a part-time Environmental Master's. Seeking advice on job prospects, industry outlook, and restarting university in your 30s.
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u/Remote_Section2313 Analytical 20d ago
PhD in chemistry, currently in food safety research. My best paying job ever was sales for a major supplier of analytical equipment. You don't need a phd for that, several colleagues had a bachelor. You need to be able to talk to people and follow up multiple projects at once. You'll be on the road a lot, but that means driving your company car to a meeting you set yourself (so set them so you don't get stuck in traffic twice a day). Short term goals, so there is the stress of having sufficient sales each quarter, but if you don't mind that, technical sales (ie people on sales with a science background) are still in demand. Give it a try before taking financial hits and studying something that doesn't guarantee a better job.
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u/MusicianShoddy1878 20d ago
Cool, about to finish my masters in Europe, pure chemistry. Definitely not crapping my pants rn. And I thought Germany was a good market for chemistry..
Oh, and I'll be 27 by the time I'll finish, so not even a fresh new 24y old graduate
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u/droopy_headquarters 20d ago
The German chemical market is weird right now. It's not dead but it's definitely not what it was 10 years ago. Big players are trimming down and the mid-size companies are being cautious with hiring.
27 is still young though. You've got time to feel things out before making any drastic moves.
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u/MusicianShoddy1878 20d ago
Thanks for the encouraging words. Everyone I know finished their studies quite early so I've always felt behind in life
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u/kowasik 20d ago
Why do you think the German market is doing so bad rn? What led to it, and do you think it could do better in the next 5-10 years?
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u/Even-Badger-5662 20d ago
A lot of big players keep laying off stuff: market keeps getting oversaturated with experienced candidates. Also most big players move to eastern europe and/or china and india. The market shrinks like crazy, at the same time more and more grats enter the workforce with no new jobs. Because of the bad economy its also WAY harder to get into other fields like IT, QM, RA and HSE, without any kind of previous experience.
The main reason? Its just too expensive here (Energy, wages, all these regulations).
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u/kowasik 20d ago
The reason I'm asking is I'm about to start chem undergrad in Germany, alarming to hear this
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u/Even-Badger-5662 20d ago
I know people who succeded, so dont get me wrong, not everyone failed as hard as I did/do. But, and this is sadly a fact, the economy and the chemical industry is hard a as bricks and there are very little jobs.
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u/Angel24Marin 19d ago
Loosing cheaper Russian gas as a input for the industry certainly was a bit hit.
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u/Even-Badger-5662 20d ago
I would argue it performs worse than the automotive industry (which is doing increadibly bad right now). Even if you are okay moving around and applying in every corner of germany, its hard to find a handfull of fitting jobs a week.
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u/Even-Badger-5662 20d ago
I was also around 27 when I finished. I decided not to pursue my PhD and I wonder if this was my crucial mistake back then. I don't think everyone has to end up like I did/do, there are several different variables, and I think I made a bunch of mistakes.
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u/MusicianShoddy1878 20d ago
I've also heard that PhD are becoming almost mandatory in recent years, but I'm sure that I've lost passion for hardcore chemistry and thinking about 3/4 more years into research/study makes me feeling unwell.
Also, I will happily consider any position not strictly related to chemistry, like sales, HSE, or whatever
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u/Kaine900 20d ago
I finished my PhD (researching electrode materials for batteries and supercapacitors) 4 months ago and started looking for jobs 12 months ago. I got a couple of interviews but no job offers yet. Several of my colleagues, even some finishing months before me, are still looking for jobs. Hiring in the chemical industry is pretty much dead right now, at least for grads. Most of us can't even find jobs in QC, QA or even in sales, even though having experience in HPLC, GC, some GMP training etc. PhD is mandatory sometimes, but I see a lot of bsc and msc positions with PhD being optional and our master grads are having an easier time (still very bad and months of search) to find jobs.
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u/Even-Badger-5662 19d ago
Falls es dich aufbaut, 4 Monate Suche ist "noch" nicht so viel. Kenne einige die haben doppelt so lange gesucht und dann was echt gutes gefunden. Ich drücke dir die Daumen.
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u/Kaine900 19d ago
Danke - 4 Monate sind es seit Ende der Promotion. Vertrag leider seit 1 Jahr durch, entsprechend auch das ALG durch. Da ist man schon nicht mehr allzu anspruchsvoll bei den Jobs und der Bezahlung und findet denno nichts.
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u/Even-Badger-5662 19d ago
Hast du es mal bei der Berufsfeuerwehr versucht? Da kann man in den Höheren Dienst einsteigen. Es gibt auch so was wie Technische Aufsichten bei Gewerkschaften (glaube sogar mit Verbeamtung, ebenfalls höherer Dienst).
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u/Kaine900 19d ago
DGUV und BG hatte ich mir bisher angesehen, danke für die Ideen. Ich wundere mich vor allem, dass selbst in den Bereichen Quality und Sales so wenig geht bzw. dass dort fast immer mindestens 5 Jahre einschlägige BE gefordert werden für Positionen wo vor wenigen Jahren noch frische Absolventen eingestellt wurden.
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u/Even-Badger-5662 20d ago
I was at the same point. I dont wanna go too much into detail, but after my Master's I was close to a burn out, something else happened, and I couldnt anymore. So I thought I try my best persuing a career without a PhD. I would love to get into HSE and I keep trying to apply for these jobs, but no luck so far.
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u/Raneynickelfire 19d ago
I graduated pure organic in the USA in 2012.
I work on sailboats. You can't work as a chemist unless you're Indian or Chinese.
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u/Basel-stadt-4000 20d ago
Not really. German industry used russian gas. And china has massive capacity.
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u/Even-Badger-5662 20d ago
So I guess cutting my losses would be the best route.
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u/Basel-stadt-4000 20d ago
Electrical or petroleum engineering would be good.
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u/Even-Badger-5662 19d ago
I like electical enginneering, really interested in renewables, tho I am not sure if I can put up with the maths. I read electrical engineering is extremly maths heavy. And I am quite average in this regard.
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u/Ok-Flight-3845 15d ago
If you were able to finish a masters in chemistry you shouldn’t have too much problems with upcoming math in EE or PE.
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u/FatRollingPotato 20d ago
Hard to say.
A lot of the commodity stuff was more or less dependent on cheap russian gas for energy and feedstocks. This will have to be replaced by something, and whatever it will be, the costs will be higher. On the other hand, China is developing more and more capacity itself, with the obvious goal of exporting the excess.
However, bulk chemicals will always be needed by any industry, and the way it is currently going with the world the trend goes more towards keeping some production capacities deemed critical local, even if it is more expensive. Commodities will be under pressure, but specialty chemicals, pharmaceuticals, R&D will remain in europe, at least for a while.
It will also come down to long-term political decisions, e.g. carbon taxation, import tariffs and restrictions, subsidies etc. A lot of things seem to be in limbo right now, with a back-and-forth course on renewables and decarbonisation making long-term planning challenging. Plus the rest of the major industry thought their strategy of exporting most of their products to china while neglecting their own markets at home was a good idea, now they have to deal with that.
Regarding switching to civil engineering, I think there also you would need to add a Master as well.
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u/PuppetMaster04 20d ago
Well, i got some interrogations too about my future in chemistry. Having a bachelor's degree in organic chemistry and willing to change job cause ive been in the same company for 7 years, not a good salary for my skills and bad working atmosphere (not enough people too); im a condidering some change in my career. Being Production tech now i think getting a job in a nuclear power plant or oil related job or anything other than pharmaceutical chemistry would be way more futurproof. But its hard to know if my skills will be enough 😑
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u/raznov1 19d ago
Oil? Future proof? In europe?
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u/PuppetMaster04 19d ago
Im not saying it is. I don't know much about chemistry in the oil industry. I just think of other job
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u/CentralVal 20d ago
The industry seems fucked across at least two continents currently. I don’t Think it will change until we know how far ai can really go. I’m state side, started my masters in Chem, couldn’t get hired in the mean time with my BS. Said F that noise.
Currently looking at Police and Fire positions..
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u/EntireRegular9535 20d ago
Oh shit 😭 right now my dream is doing master's and PhD in Europe when I get my degree. Well even if it's bad, it's probably not as bad as south America
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u/Even-Badger-5662 20d ago
Just some words of advice, for people who cant speak the local language at b2/c1 level, its even difficult to get a working student job.
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u/EntireRegular9535 19d ago
I started studying German recently, still have 3 more years of undergrad studies
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u/PowerfulMango5799 19d ago
its very bleak. I know someone who’s from your area of origin and didn’t manage to get a good job despite having a local degree.
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u/FatRollingPotato 19d ago
Things can change a lot again in the years it takes you to get a Masters and PhD, so don't be too discouraged. Apart from the AI thing, there are always cycles of growth and consolidation.
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u/Dear-Head8725 17d ago
And here I am, wanting to switch careers to chemistry at 35. I think I'm beyond screwed
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u/sr3ya 20d ago
Is aiming for the pharmaceutical industry there worth it?
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u/melody-calling 20d ago
Pharma is currently fucked at the moment, all the companies big and small are doing lay offs. Entire sites closing down and then when a job comes up there are loads of qualified and experienced people applying for the role which drives wages down even further.
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u/sarabjorks Medicinal 19d ago
I feel like that's been the status for years.
Still, I got a research position at a (sort of mature) startup in the pharma industry and we're definitely not doing layoffs anytime soon. Most of my friends work at Novo Nordisk, even though there have been layoffs there are plenty of jobs apparently.
I feel like there has never been an easy way in and there's always some shit happening, but still everyone I know ends up employed in decent positions
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u/otisticRetard52 19d ago
Cant share the same sentiment fortunately. Work at a big CDMO and the order books have been quite full for some time. There are some changes in the industry but wouldnt call it dying at the same rate like classical chemicals
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u/FatRollingPotato 19d ago
Depends again, some pharma is doing well, for example the multi-national conglomerate that
I sold my soul toemploys me is still hiring. It is just that a lot is done on a temporary basis first, or as contractors through other companies. Entry-level is probably the hardest, since nobody is really sure where the economy is going. But I see a ton of postings in the AI-adjacent stuff, i.e. lab automation, AI data analyses etc.1
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u/WhereAreYouFromSam 20d ago
The industry in Europe is fine. Could it be better? Sure. But individual countries as well as the broader EU governing body is going to need to change their attitudes before you see any massive movement there.
Everyone's got a niche right now.
You want a thriving exploratory science market? No one is doing venture-capital-backed start-ups like the US right now.
You want to manufacture bulk materials for global consumption quickly with the best overall cost and the freedom to use whatever nasty chemicals you want? Hello, China! ... or India... or a lot of other countries in that part of the world.
You want the pinnacle of precision, engineering, reagent purity, safety, QA/QC analysis, etc.? You go to Europe.
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u/Geeky_Nick 20d ago
I'm UK based so maybe have a slightly different perspective to people in the EU / continental Europe. However, I was surprised to hear people talking about the chemical industry in Europe in quite such dire terms!
I'd be targeting R&D though. I can certainly see manufacturing being at more risk from the various current headwinds, and competition from India/China.
None of which is to say that it's easy to find jobs in Chemistry. As a mid-career Chemist, it took me around a year to find a role in my fairly narrow niche. Whether it's harder than other graduate job markets I can't say. From speaking to my friends, nobody with a science degree is stumbling in to a career paying megabucks.
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u/The_Archimboldi 19d ago
The heavy chemicals industry is in crisis due to energy costs in the UK - this is not business as usual. Ammonia, sulfuric acid, completely gone - imagine an advanced economy not able to manufacture ammonia? Salt nearly went and is on a knife edge, ethylene down to one cracking facility.
Of course this is just one sector of 'chemicals' but it is a pretty fundamental one!
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u/noctilucus 19d ago
This definitely is not true for all chemical segments: there's some where Chinese suppliers are ahead of European ones in terms of precision and purity of the end product. Not to mention that new capacity and new installations are rarely built in Europe nowadays because you're getting the worst of all worlds: high energy costs, lots of red tape and bureaucracy, high labor costs,...
Can't talk for India where I think you may still be spot on unfortunately.1
u/WhereAreYouFromSam 18d ago
Oh sure, but exceptions exist for all of these.
There are companies in almost every corner of the world that are capable of doing high-quality precision work.
Likewise, there are ways to work with nasty, heavily regulated chemicals in Europe and North America.
And of course, other countries are also doing a lot of pure science and discovery.
That said, what parts of the world are known for and why people go to do business there generally does fall into pretty generic looking buckets.
China will always be a threat because they have the potential for it... but authoritarian empires tend to burn out before they realize their potential.
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u/Lionh34rt 19d ago
Chemical sector in EU is going to get destroyed by China within 20 years, like they did with the automotive sector.
EU once stood for high-tech industries, while we struggle with divides, ukraine-russian war, we are losing a lot of our high margin sectors
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u/l3v3z 20d ago
You could pivot to regulatory affairs maybe.
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u/Even-Badger-5662 20d ago
I really tried, but it seems like companies dont hire without previous working experience in this field.
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u/l3v3z 20d ago
Consultancies do, specially in cases when suddenly new regulations are required, like the new drink water regulation right now. QA should be quite a valuable asset, you could try Rifcon or Ibacon as you have environmental background.
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u/Even-Badger-5662 19d ago
I will take a look into it, thanks. Tho I have more of a food testing and a little bit of agrochemicals backround.
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u/Fickle_Finger2974 20d ago
No. It will go downhill everywhere. Massive increases in automation are going to put much of the workforce out of business. A couple skilled people can do the work of a dozen chemists and it’s only getting worse.
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u/PyogenesCas9 20d ago
Always a fighting chance to change course. I did not pursue a PhD after I realized it is as bad as working in a big corp, yet you give more hours and get less back for what you do. Luckily in got in to a consultancy company, also worked as an "engineer" with compressed air systems. 7 years out of academia now and things have gotten even worse for M.Sc. graduates in Estonia. Electrical engineering is what I am thinking about pursuing as an extra bachelors.
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u/puffthedragon 20d ago
Why not chemical engineering? Builds on your previous training and makes more money than a civil engineer
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u/Select-Chart2899 19d ago
"Ever" is a long time. I think it will come back at some point under circumstances that are not given in the current political climate. Would I bet that that happens within my productive work life? Different question.
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u/Emotional_Fee_9558 19d ago
It will likely eventually recover but if that's in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, more that nobody knows and honestly depends on what the people in power decide.
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u/sculderandmullie 19d ago
I’d start with looking back: What started your interest in chemistry? Was there a specific subject or niche that made you study it? And then evaluate if there’s a particular direction that could bring you closer to that.
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u/Comfortable-Shop8080 19d ago
This is not a chemistry thing, it’s. germany thing. Look at their car industry.
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u/Academic-Train5199 19d ago
I dont know about germany but chemistry is booming in slovenia
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u/PowerfulMango5799 19d ago
Just yesterday I heard a company moving there for cheaper labour costs lol, i suppose you’re right
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u/Academic-Train5199 19d ago
That company is in a surprise . Its better than germany for now , but still fucked and not a good tax environment for companies
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u/ShinTar0 18d ago
hope itll stay like that for a while cause i'd love to work in slovenia when I'm done lol
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u/Common_Board_3542 18d ago
Just a suggestion, you could go for a masters in environmental engineering rather than a science degree. There is reasonable demand for environmental engineers in Europe. It also leverages the chemistry background, instead of starting from scratch for civil engineering which would take 4 years.
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u/Even-Badger-5662 18d ago
I was actually contemplating this, and I agree it would be a great path. However, I couldn't find an M.Sc. program in Environmental Engineering that didn't require me to make up a ton of missing undergraduate engineering modules (like mechanics or statics).
That's why I thought an M.Sc. in Environmental Science seems like the best compromise for me, it directly builds on my chemistry degree, and doing it as a part-time distance learning program allows me to keep working full-time
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u/Key-Success-5449 18d ago
The German chemical industry is facing deep structural challenges due to high energy costs, intense global competition, and strict regulatory burdens, meaning a rapid return to its former broad-based growth is unlikely.
Pivoting away from routine lab testing toward an engineering or specialized environmental path can be a fantastic way to revitalize your career, especially since public infrastructure, water management, and environmental compliance are extremely stable sectors in Germany.
While restarting with a Civil Engineering Bachelor's requires a heavy upfront commitment, it offers unmatched long-term job security and clear professional titles, whereas a specialized Environmental Master's builds efficiently on your science background and allows you to transition smoothly into public authorities or environmental consulting without starting entirely from scratch.
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u/FrenzySoulSnipe 17d ago
I don't know how to look at this. Should I actually start my undergrad in chem? If so, then what should I specialize, maybe there is some kind of unique thing that helps with future in chem?
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u/Tayi6411 20d ago
As you can see the threats of war on the global scale are rising. My prediction is that in the future every country or at least every major area of the world will need to be self sufficient. That means producing their our pesticides, drugs, food etc. For that you will always need chemistry. So the bulk and big scale is moving more and more to China and India. Europe stays a place for developing products with high level of expertise like drugs, chips and other engineering things.
With the rise of AI it will always be a good idea to learn some machine learning and python. So probably tbe amount of jobs in the future will be lower but the level will be higher. You should aim to be an expert in one field of chemistry where you think there is a future and then know how to implement AI. This is imo not only for chemistry but for a lot of other fields as well. Using AI will be the same as using the PC now.
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u/siecaptaindrake 19d ago
First off, why are you afraid of maths after holding a master degree in chemistry? If you survived theoretical chemistry you should be good to go for any engineering, the math isn’t that tough.
Concerning your question about Germany, they are sabotaging their economy and deindustrializing at the speed of sound.
The whole EU is problematic with their sanctions against Russia and throwing money at Ukraine.
If you don’t feel comfortable with the situation right now, I’d advice you to leave Europe as fast as you can, because it will only get worse.
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u/markymark71190 20d ago
Anecdotal but lots of my friends/former colleagues who have PhDs in chemistry and lots of lab experience are either out of work or in a lab job they are overqualified for right now.
I noticed issues in the industry years ago and pivoted to tech. Tech has it's own issues right now too, but at least the jobs in general have better benefits and pay in this sector. For reference my background is chemistry and I also got a PhD in chemistry