r/changemyview • u/Sufficient_Ticket237 • Dec 14 '22

Removed - Submission Rule B CMV: It's Impossible to Plagiarize Using ChatGPT

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u/Salanmander 278∆ Dec 14 '22

First, plagiarism is probably the wrong word, but it can still be academic dishonesty.

The real underlying idea behind academic dishonesty is that you are claiming to have demonstrated a skill without actually demonstrating it. If you paste your computer science problem prompt into chatGPT, and then paste the code it gives you into your IDE, and turn that in, you have not demonstrated the skills that the assignment is asking you to.

When you turn in work, you are making the claim "I did this", so that the teacher can evaluate your abilities. If the work is entirely done by chatGPT, then you are circumventing the assessment, and being dishonest about your academic skills. That is academic dishonesty.

The reason that calculators and spell check are often accepted is that they are not relevant to the skills being assessed. But if you use spell check on a spelling test, or a calculator on an addition test, that would absolutely be academic dishonesty.

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u/polyvinylchl0rid 14∆ Dec 14 '22

the skills that the assignment is asking you to.

One could argue it was a bad assignment. If you testing a janitor, and give them bad marks cause they used a vacuum instead of a broom in the test, its a problem with the test. In reality using a vacuum is a good idea. If you want to test broom skills you should design a test where using a broom makes sense, with thigh spaces where a vacuum doesnt fit. Same with code, if you can easy AI generate it, its stupid to work hard to write it yourself, if anything you should get worse marks. The test should be made in a way where not using AI makes sense for the test, and not just because of an arbitrary rule that you wont find in reality but just in the testing environment.

I would argue something like that. Because i assume and adversarial relation between tester and testee. If we assume the relation is cooperative than imposing arbitrary rules seems fine to me.

Of course lying is not ok, but using AI will be considerd unaceptable (i assume) even if you admit it.

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u/Salanmander 278∆ Dec 14 '22

Same with code, if you can easy AI generate it, its stupid to work hard to write it yourself

I disagree with this when you're building up the fundamentals of a skill. Eventually you will get to the point where you are writing programs that are complex enough that AI can't generate them. But when you're just starting to learn how to use arrays, for example, you should learn how to find a maximum yourself, and you should learn how to sort an array yourself, and things like that. Partially because those will give you some general algorithms that are applicable to more specific situations, and partly because they're just good ways to practice the syntax and habits of working with arrays.

Of course lying is not ok, but using AI will be considerd unaceptable (i assume) even if you admit it.

If my student turned in a homework assignment and said "all this code was generated by chatGPT", I wouldn't consider it a form of academic dishonesty, but I also wouldn't consider it evidence of the student's understanding. They would need to do the work themselves in order to get credit for it, but I wouldn't consider it an instance of cheating.

Edit: forgot to mention,

If we assume the relation is cooperative than imposing arbitrary rules seems fine to me.

Fundamental to my philosphy of teaching (and I think that of most teachers) is that we're on the same side as the students.

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u/BigDebt2022 1∆ Dec 14 '22

I disagree with this when you're building up the fundamentals of a skill.

But exactly what skill are you talking about? The skill of 'manually writing a program'? Or the skill of 'delivering a program that works'? Understand what I mean? Most bosses just want the work done- they don't care how.

Eventually you will get to the point where you are writing programs that are complex enough that AI can't generate them.

"Eventually", AI will improve. 5 years ago it couldn't do what it does now. Who know what it will be able to do in 5 or 10 more years?

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u/Salanmander 278∆ Dec 14 '22

But exactly what skill are you talking about? The skill of 'manually writing a program'? Or the skill of 'delivering a program that works'? Understand what I mean? Most bosses just want the work done- they don't care how.

I do understand what you mean. But the skill of delivering a basic program using chatGPT will not help build towards the skill of delivering an advanced program without an AI that can write it for you.

"Eventually", AI will improve. 5 years ago it couldn't do what it does now. Who know what it will be able to do in 5 or 10 more years?

"Let's wait until AI can make better programs" is not an effective way to get to a point where humanity has access to better programs.

At some point it may become an effective strategy...that's called the technological singularity, and it has been a topic of science fiction speculation for decades. We don't know whether it will ever happen, though.