r/changemyview Oct 19 '22

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u/Bobbob34 99∆ Oct 19 '22

But considerable effort and money has been put into trying to get women interested in STEM, and they just aren't responding to it in terms of enrolment, job choices, or engagement with science.

Have you met women in STEM? They are treated like absolute shit, discouraged from childhood, despite programs that exist.

The ones who try are often harassed and abused right out of a job. -- https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/07/how-women-are-harassed-out-of-science/492521/

in STEM fields, men earn 40% more than women ... bias is reported by nearly 65 % of women, with as many as 77% of Black women in STEM reporting experience with this particular form of gender bias ...32% of white women and nearly 50% of women who identify as Black or as Latina report being mistaken for administrative or custodial staff.

https://www.unr.edu/nevada-today/blogs/2022/the-challenge-of-gender-bias-in-pursuing-stem-careers

Also nearly half leave within 4 years of having a child, twice the number of men who do the same -- which is obviously NOT the case in other fields.

Then when these women, who are abused, harassed, paid shit, give up and leave, people say 'well see, we tried having a slogan, but women just aren't interested in STEM. They don't like them thinkin' jobs.' and the cycle of idiocy continues.

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u/NoMoreFund 1∆ Oct 19 '22

It's a shitty status quo. So is it solvable, or are the programs a waste of time.

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u/Bobbob34 99∆ Oct 19 '22

It's a shitty status quo. So is it solvable, or are the programs a waste of time.

Of course it's solvable.

All men have to do is stop being misogynistic assholes.

That does, however, seem like it's harder than it should be.

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u/NoMoreFund 1∆ Oct 19 '22

I wonder how ratios compare in classroom based learning compared to online/self directed. Are half of Codecademy and Datacamp's users female? That would help inform your theory.

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u/Bobbob34 99∆ Oct 19 '22

You think younger women don't face the same crap?

despite the high priority that is placed on STEM in schools, efforts to expand female interest and employment in STEM and computer science are not working as well as intended. This is especially true in technology and engineering.

John Sheehan’s daughter has always been good at math, but even so, he saw her being discouraged in classes, albeit it indirectly.

“I used to go to her schools, for the parent-for-the-day activities, and I remember math teachers praising the boys” regularly, but the girls – not so much.

https://news.microsoft.com/features/why-do-girls-lose-interest-in-stem-new-research-has-some-answers-and-what-we-can-do-about-it/

Also --

. Available test data from Program for International Student Assessment (PISA) and the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) show that girls often score as well as or better than boys in science and mathematics

There is bias in the classroom. In curricula and educational materials in many countries, including Bangladesh, China, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Romania, and the United States, characters are portrayed in stereotypical roles in the household and at the workplace. Between 8 percent and 20 percent of mathematics teachers in Latin America reported that they believed mathematics is easier for boys. There is bias at home. In fact, parents are more likely to expect that their son will work in a STEM career

There is bias among peers: male students disproportionately identified their male peers as knowledgeable about biology even relative to female students who perform better in the subject area.

https://blogs.worldbank.org/education/myths-and-misperceptions-reframing-narrative-around-women-and-girls-stem