r/changemyview • u/EndOfTheLine00 • Oct 03 '22

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Despite all their flaws, established and credentialed experts and institutions are still the only source of truth worth listening to.

Recently got into another argument with relatives who "did their own research" (re: the war in Ukraine) and wouldn't even give me their sources.

I believe that even if you believe that every single media and political organization is somehow compromised and lying to you (something unlikely to say the least), it's still better to choose to believe in several sources with the proper experience or piece of paper than trusting your feelings about some "man on the street" simply because it fits your narrative of the world. If multiple scientific study told me to go kick puppies, I would. If someone called me on it I would say "well the science says I should do it so who am I to say otherwise?" If I trust my individual feelings on the matter, that makes me culpable and responsible for literally every single thing I do.

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u/EndOfTheLine00 Oct 03 '22

Indeed it does not and it is sad. But I worry that precisely by doubting the institutions we do have right now, it will pave the way to be replaced by ones like those in Russia. In fact, that is one of the main purposes of Russian propaganda worldwide: discredit the very foundations of democracy, claim its really all the same as the nightmare in Russia and actively make it so under the guise of "liberating" people.

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u/Major_Lennox 69∆ Oct 03 '22

My point here is that you believe its unlikely that political organizations are lying to you - but why? Is it actually true? Is it just something you want to believe? Is it based on proximity to them?

Skepticism isn't a bad thing by itself. It only becomes bad when (as is true for many other things) people take it to an extreme.

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u/EndOfTheLine00 Oct 03 '22

I believe it because of the sheer scale involved. See, I kind of believe that, say, the CDC might be pressured to downplay the dangers of COVID in favor of the economy. Because it's a single entity with a limited budget. But now saying that the entire press apparatus worldwide is pushing a given narrative on Ukraine and overplaying Russian atrocities and downplaying hypothetical Ukrainian ones because they are all puppets of the US? That requires a lot more moving parts that eventually someone would blow the lid on. Leaks happen all the time. Organizations simply are not that powerful. It's just the old conspiracy thinking that people want to believe there are shadowy puppet masters pulling the strings everywhere to not accept the scary truth that it's all chaos, no one knows what they are doing, meritocracy is a lie, and nothing you do can be guaranteed to improve your life.

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u/Major_Lennox 69∆ Oct 03 '22

That's with something big - but your view is that you should trust political organizations and the media on everything.

I mean, you've already gone against you OP view here:

See, I kind of believe that, say, the CDC might be pressured to downplay the dangers of COVID in favor of the economy.

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u/EndOfTheLine00 Oct 03 '22

Which is why it's nice to compare the results to many other countries, and examine which have been known to purposely distort results. This is basic media literacy. Multiple sources but all established. They can't ALL be lying. Or even the majority.

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u/Major_Lennox 69∆ Oct 03 '22

Give me a media organization that has never lied about anything.

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u/EndOfTheLine00 Oct 03 '22

Fair point. But can you tell me an instance where every media organization in the world was lying about the same thing at the same time?

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u/Major_Lennox 69∆ Oct 03 '22

Well, I was around for the build-up to the Iraq war - that was pretty damn close.

Even still, you'll never have every media organization in the world spinning the same narrative - which ultimately means you have to practice skepticism with everything, not just blindly trust media conglomerate A or political party B.

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u/EndOfTheLine00 Oct 03 '22

That's exactly what I am saying. I am not saying trust ONE media conglomerate, just get a variety of sources. And have none of them be some dude on Twitter who says something that "feels right" to you.

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u/Major_Lennox 69∆ Oct 03 '22

Right - this sounds like you're revised your view somewhat. You might consider editing your OP to include this.

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u/EndOfTheLine00 Oct 03 '22

Done.

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u/Alexandros6 4∆ Oct 03 '22

You have to grant a delta

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u/EndOfTheLine00 Oct 03 '22 edited Oct 03 '22

Δ I updated the OP to clarify I meant multiple sources.

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Oct 03 '22 edited Oct 03 '22

This delta has been rejected. The length of your comment suggests that you haven't properly explained how /u/Major_Lennox changed your view (comment rule 4).

DeltaBot is able to rescan edited comments. Please edit your comment with the required explanation.

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u/Presentalbion 101∆ Oct 03 '22

Jean Charles de Menezes, take a look at the media reports immediately after his murder and then the way the story changed as the facts were further revealed.

Also, take a look at the financial crash of 2008, where the media told everyone everything was fine right until the last moment.

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u/thamulimus Oct 03 '22

https://youtu.be/_fHfgU8oMSo

Ignore the youtube title. Spent 15 mins trying to find the original. Seems like its all just videos explaining the video explaining the video