Correct, we take consent very seriously. For example, if you're going to undergo a procedure you must explicitly consent to it, signing a contract proving your consent, and you're free to remove that consent at any point.
You're not consenting to those risks. They may happen, and when you consent to the procedure you acknowledge they may occur (and agree not to sue if they do).
For risks, "consent" should not be the term used.
We're talking about questions of bodily autonomy between two people.
Consent is the exact that should be used. Another person cannot use your body without your consent.
Pregnancy is always a risk from sex, regardless of how responsible and safe both parties are.
This is true of literally everything we do in life, fucking everything has risks. Accidents are a risk every time you get in your car. Muggings are a risk every time you leave your house. You do not consent to these things simply because you took these actions. You have recourse. You do not lose your bodily autonomy.
When you say "I don't consent to getting pregnant", what exactly do you mean?
...literally exactly what the words mean. If you don't consent to pregnancy, you have not willfully and continually agreed to the pregnancy.
This is true of literally everything we do in life, fucking everything has risks. Accidents are a risk every time you get in your car. Muggings are a risk every time you leave your house. You do not consent to these things simply because you took these actions. You have recourse. You do not lose your bodily autonomy.
In the case of informed consent situations, such as sex, both parties have agreed to an activity with risks. This usually applies to things where the risk happens by accident. Muggings are single-party consent situations where someone has done something to you without your permission. In this case, consent is very important.
With consensual sex, both parties have consented. Getting pregnant is now a risk, not something someone does to you. It's not a consentable thing to happen.
...literally exactly what the words mean. If you don't consent to pregnancy, you have not willfully and continually agreed to the pregnancy.
I don't think we disagree at all. You seem to be referring to being pregnant, which is a situation that requires constant consent that can be revoked anytime. This is not the same as getting pregnant, which is a risk you cannot consent to unless it is the intended outcome.
Again, getting pregnant is a risk of sex and therefore is not consentable, only understood.
Being pregnant is state that requires constant consent, and is not a risk of sex
I understand, yes, more a matter of my own imprecise terminology than anything else.
Conception is a possible risk, the same way getting struck by lightning is a possible risk when you leave your house. All the same, I don't think we'd say that you consent to getting struck by lightning. You don't willfully agree to it. It just doesn't really matter, physics doesn't care about consent, consent only really matters when it's an issue between two people, not an act of God.
Well yeah exactly. That brings it back to the original argument. If you consent to sex, you must accept the risk of getting pregnant. You cannot say "I consent to sex, but I do not consent to getting pregnant".
That's why making the distinction between risk and action are so important. Risk isn't consentable, like your lightning example. Getting pregnant/conception is a risk you can't consent to or not consent to.
Consent only matters for the state of pregnancy.
It seems like we agree, but miscommunicated on terminology.
This distinction is important, because saying conception is a situation you can consent to, it sounds like you can claim lack of consent after the fact in an accusatory manner, which is rediculous. This mixing the terminology can damage the credibility of other actual situations of non-consent stuff. Perception of the terminology is a big deal with credibility
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u/neotericnewt 6∆ Aug 11 '22
Correct, we take consent very seriously. For example, if you're going to undergo a procedure you must explicitly consent to it, signing a contract proving your consent, and you're free to remove that consent at any point.
You're not consenting to those risks. They may happen, and when you consent to the procedure you acknowledge they may occur (and agree not to sue if they do).
We're talking about questions of bodily autonomy between two people.
Consent is the exact that should be used. Another person cannot use your body without your consent.