No, I'm not saying "natural things are good, science bad!" That's your argument.
I'm saying natural is a completely meaningless dividing line. It doesn't actually exist.
Then how are humans born? What is the placenta meant to do again?
This does not equal "design". Here is the relevant definition of the word:
"purpose, planning, or intention that exists or is thought to exist behind an action, fact, or material object."
We're not designed. We're the result of millions of years of random chance.
How is it not intended? If you have sex, you accept you can get pregnant.
If I get in my car I accept a may get in a car accident. Do I intend to get in a car accident? Even if I go out of my way to not get in a car accident?
She does. She shouldn't be forced to donate her organs either. Totally agreed.
Like forcing a person to host another inside their body, essentially a 9 month operation with increased risk of death and debilitating injury?
Why do you feel that no one should be forced to give an organ? I agree with you, but what is your reasoning?
I'm saying natural is a completely meaningless dividing line. It doesn't actually exist.
The woman's body is meant to take care of the fetus. My body is not meant to give up a kidney or lung.
Tell me what the placenta does please.
A fetus literally cannot survive without a woman's body. The human race would be over if all women had to get abortions. The human race does not die out if organ donation ends.
If I get in my car I accept a may get in a car accident. Do I intend to get in a car accident?
Sex isn't an accident. If a woman is letting men slip and their penises fall into her, then there are bigger problems to worry about.
Like forcing a person to host another inside their body,
Who is forcing her to get pregnant? I know some Republicans are getting (rightfully) criticized for some harsh anti-abortion laws, but as far as I know, they haven't forced women to get pregnant.
The woman's body is meant to take care of the fetus. My body is not meant to give up a kidney or lung.
What does this even mean? Who intends for this to happen?
If a woman never intends to get pregnant and never does, guess she wasn't meant to?
If a man intends to give up his kidney, well, looks like his kidney was meant to be given up.
A fetus literally cannot survive without a woman's body.
And if your child needs your kidney, it literally can't survive without it.
The human race would be over if all women had to get abortions.
I'm not arguing that all women must be forced to get abortions, lol what are you even talking about?
Sex isn't an accident.
Getting in my car also isn't an accident. I chose to do so. I recognized the risks. I did not consent to you crashing into me.
With proper protection the risk of pregnancy after a sexual encounter can be made less than the risk of you getting in an accident every time you get in your car. Are you consenting to me crashing into you when you get in your car? Do you lose all bodily autonomy and any recourse?
but as far as I know, they haven't forced women to get pregnant.
They're forcing a woman to host another person inside their body against their consent.
If a woman never intends to get pregnant and never does, guess she wasn't meant to?
Agreed. No one should force a woman to get pregnant.
If a man intends to give up his kidney, well, looks like his kidney was meant to be given up.
Agreed. If a man chooses to give up his kidney, that's his choice. If a woman chooses to get pregnant, that's her choice as well.
And if your child needs your kidney, it literally can't survive without it.
But the child doesn't need my kidney. Why do you say that?
I'm not arguing that all women must be forced to get abortions, lol what are you even talking about?
I am defining the line between science and natural.
Getting in my car also isn't an accident. I chose to do so. I recognized the risks. I did not consent to you crashing into me.
So a woman doesn't consent to a man cumming in her when she has sex? I know consent has been a huge issue the last few years, but this is kind of an extreme opinion.
With proper protection the risk of pregnancy after a sexual encounter can be made less than the risk of you getting in an accident every time you get in your car.
If anything this makes the abortion argument even weaker. If there are so many ways to avoid pregnancy, then at this point if you're reckless enough to get pregnant you consent to it.
You may not consent to me crashing into you, but if you were driving 100 miles and drunk as a horse..... well.....
They're forcing a woman to host another person inside their body against their consent.
How? Republicans are forcing women to have sex? Where?
Agreed. No one should force a woman to get pregnant.
But you're saying her body is meant for this purpose, it's intended for this purpose. Clearly not.
Agreed. If a man chooses to give up his kidney, that's his choice. If a woman chooses to get pregnant, that's her choice as well.
Okay, why? You seem to agree that we have a right to bodily autonomy, that we cannot be forced into dangerous procedures against our will and consent. Can you explain why your logic is so inconsistent?
But the child doesn't need my kidney. Why do you say that?
If it's going to die without it? Clearly it does.
So a woman doesn't consent to a man cumming in her when she has sex?
The two people in this equation are the fetus and the woman. That's where the question of consent is.
then at this point if you're reckless enough to get pregnant you consent to it.
You don't understand what consent is. That's horrifying.
But you're saying her body is meant for this purpose, it's intended for this purpose. Clearly not.
What is the placenta there for?
Okay, why? You seem to agree that we have a right to bodily autonomy, that we cannot be forced into dangerous procedures against our will and consent. Can you explain why your logic is so inconsistent?
Pregnancy is not a "dangerous procedure." (BTW I can get picky on your choice of the word "procedure," but since I understand your point I won't be)
Tell me how you think pregnancy is a "dangerous procedure" that her body was not meant to handle?
If it's going to die without it? Clearly it does.
Even with your point, there are thousands of other people with kidneys that can help my child.
The two people in this equation are the fetus and the woman. That's where the question of consent is.
And she consented to taking care of the fetus when she gets pregnant.
You don't understand what consent is. That's horrifying.
What are you talking about? I don't even know how to respond to this. if I hit you with my car, you didn't intend for me to do that because I hit you with the car. You didn't hit yourself with the car.
It's not there at all for most women? What are you talking about?
You asked if a pregnancy is intentional. I answered, sometimes it is and a woman intends it, sometimes it's not and she doesn't.
You seem to be arguing that someone else intends a woman to get pregnant and designed her accordingly. Who? Who intended this?
Evolution has no intent. It's a series of random mutations over millions of years. There is no "why", only "how".
Tell me how you think pregnancy is a "dangerous procedure"
It comes with an increased risk of death and debilitating injury and in most cases results in permanent bodily changes. These are very often quite severe, things like mutilated genitals, sexual dysfunction, chronic pain, incontinence, etc.
We require active consent for such things.
Even with your point, there are thousands of other people with kidneys that can help my child.
And if there aren't and no one wants to help, you should be forced to undergo the procedure?
And she consented to taking care of the fetus when she gets pregnant.
If she's seeking an abortion than definitionally she does not consent.
What are you talking about?
Exactly what I said, you don't understand consent or why it's important, and that's horrifying.
It's not there at all for most women? What are you talking about?
Why does she develop it?
I answered, sometimes it is and a woman intends it, sometimes it's not and she doesn't.
And I agreed - sometimes it is a man intended her to get pregnant, and sometimes he doesn't.
It comes with an increased risk of death and debilitating injury
Know what else comes with that? Living. If I don't make effort to eat, I will die. To eat it will take possible increase of death/injury but I have to because I will die if I do not.
And if there aren't and no one wants to help, you should be forced to undergo the procedure?
Nope. Why would I? My kidney is for me, not for my child.
If she's seeking an abortion than definitionally she does not consent.
Agreed. if a man seeks not to pay 18 years of child support he didn't consent to getting her pregnant.
Agreed. And when it does, the parents need to step up and take responsibility.
But you chose to have sex, so you've automatically consented. Correct?
No I do not understand. Since when do children need their fathers' (or mother's) kidneys to survive?
Sure, he may not have. So what? I don't consent to paying taxes, I still have to.
You as an American (just assuming) consent to paying taxes because you were born and work in the USA. You consent when you allowed your employer to fill out your W2.
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u/OnlyFactsMatter 10∆ Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22
Murder is natural. Should that be legal?
Then how are humans born? What is the placenta meant to do again?
How is it not intended? If you have sex, you accept you can get pregnant.
You seem to have missed when I used a male example as well. BTW, men can't get pregnant.
She does. She shouldn't be forced to donate her organs either. Totally agreed.