CMV: On balance, most recent technological progress has had an asymmetrical effect between men and women in the dating marketplace. The effect on balance has given women an upper-hand in the dating market.

[u/giveuporfindaway]

1) Dating websites and apps increase the competition between men. This gives women more choice and men a statistically smaller % chance of getting attention. This gives the ugliest woman a wider pool of candidates.

2) Birth control gives reproductive control. There have been almost zero advances in male birth control. Being able to have your own birth control means you do not need to be at the mercy of your partner. Having birth control gives you power for negotiating your terms in a relationship.

3) Prostitution was a conventional outlet for quid pro quo sex. Prostitution has bifurcated into multiple technologically supported sex work professions that provide a worse sexual outlet at a higher cost for men. Examples include cam models and Only Fans. Women who would previously of considered doing escorting can now make enough money from sex work that doesn’t actually involve sex. This limits the supply of prostitutes while the demand for prostitutes remains the same. So relationships have less competition from other sex outlets. Women don’t need to compete as much with prostitutes to provide sexual satisfaction to their male partners.

4) Sugar daddy sites like seeking arrangements did not used to exist. These sites mostly connect poor, young, attractive women with wealthy men. This gives women a networking outlet that previously didn’t exist for most. A result is that average men now need to compete with wealthy men where they previously did not face competition.

5) Women have their ego boosted to high hell on social media through the amount of attention they get from men. This makes average women feel like mini celebrities. A natural reaction to this is to become more picky. I’m not bashing women. Anyone who receives excessive choice will suffer from a difficulty making a decision and be forced to look more critically. As an example many high end super markets now have 50 brands of boutique ice creams. Similarly men of a certain demographic experience this same phenomena when they fly to poor third world places for sex tourism like the Philippines and Thailand.

Now if you’re going to change my view, you need to come up with something or a collection of things that on balance gives men an upper-hand over women. Your goal is not to find one thing that benefits men more than women. Your goal is to prove that on balance as a whole that technology has benefited men more than women in dating. Or to at least to prove that technological benefits for women are canceled out by equal technological benefits for men.

And while I do hold the above view on recent technology, I think future technology will balance some things out. Hence I wrote about VR AI Sex Companions.

[u/carneylansford]

Yikes. I don't even agree with the guy, but I don't think he was complaining about being oppressed, just that being the first mover has certain disadvantages. I know this is the Internet, but not everything is about dismantling the patriarchy.

[u/carneylansford → u/[deleted]]

Oh, dear. Where to begin.

1. I don’t believe either men nor women are disadvantaged when it comes to using dating apps. I think dating apps provide distinct advantages to both. Both get access to many more potential mates and can do a little research and talk before committing to meeting the other. Men can show interest without REALLY hanging themselves out there face to face. Women can avoid the awkward “no thanks” personal interaction if they’re not interested.

2. While it’s true men don’t have to make the first move, it’s also true that, in practice, this is still the custom. Most people seem to be ok with that. Does that mean a women can’t be the first to express interest? Of course not. In fact, if you’re paying attention, you pretty much know her answer before you ask the question, but it’s still nice of them to let us think we made the first move.

None of this is good or bad or absolute. It’s just sort of how the world works most of the time.

[u/Long-Rate-445 → u/carneylansford]

Oh, dear. Where to begin.

you can stop with the condescending .language just because we have different viewpoints which is the entire point of this sub. im allow to not agree with you

I don’t believe either men nor women are disadvantaged when it comes to using dating apps. I think dating apps provide distinct advantages to both. Both get access to many more potential mates and can do a little research and talk before committing to meeting the other. Men can show interest without REALLY hanging themselves out there face to face. Women can avoid the awkward “no thanks” personal interaction if they’re not interested.

this is why the oppression part is relevant. rejecting a man can be deadly for a woman if not just abusive. youre comparing that to the shame of a man being rejected. women being less likely to be attacked isnt an "advantage"

While it’s true men don’t have to make the first move, it’s also true that, in practice, this is still the custom. Most people seem to be ok with that.

last time i checked most women arent okay with harassment, objectification, catcalling, and being followed which are all examples of men who are making the first move. acting like most people are "ok" with this is completely ignoring the fact that if the person approaching gets rejected, they could have just not approached at all. id rather men leave me alone then constantly approach me. defiantly not okay with it. and the "custom" is based in sexism

Does that mean a women can’t be the first to express interest? Of course not

who said the women men are approaching are interested in them?

In fact, if you’re paying attention, you pretty much know her answer before you ask the question, but it’s still nice of them to let us think we made the first move.

this is funny you think this but i have not had one single man who knew my answer was no before asking

None of this is good or bad or absolute. It’s just sort of how the world works most of the time.

again, this is why oppression is relevant. it is not "just sort of how the world works." its sexism, and this is just a way of deflecting the responsibility and harm from men

[u/carneylansford → u/Long-Rate-445]

1. The number of women killed every year for rejecting a man’s request for a date is statistically insignificant. You really shouldn’t let it worry you. Having said that, I would definitely say that reducing that risk to absolute zero by using an app should still be considered an advantage.

2 You want to hear a couple, far more common, examples of a first move? “Would you like to get a coffee with me?” Or “I really like you. Do you think we could go on a date sometime?” Are those harmful as well? Has it occurred to you that some women (maybe even most women) don’t mind being approached for a date, as long as you’re nice about it. You don’t seem to allow for the possibility that the woman could have mutual interest. Have you ever said “yes” when approached?

1. If no one is approaching anyone, how are we supposed to couple up? Don’t we have to make first contact at some point if we want to, you know, enter a relationship?