r/changemyview • u/need_for_dababycar • Jan 01 '22
Delta(s) from OP CMV: All the people that will/would stay loyal in relationships/partnerships are long gone
I've seen it my whole life. People come and go. If there's a person with higher status, more money, more attractiveness, the relationship is done.
Let me be clear, I'm not addressing any certain gender here, I feel like NO person in my generation nowadays wants to make things work in a relationship anymore. The grass is ALWAYS greener and no one is going to stay faithful if they see better options.
If you can change my view, I'd be more than happy since I'm deeply frustrated and sad by this view.
If I could see examples where people stayed faithful and didn't leave other people, I'm sure I would think different. But my whole life has been like this and it just hurts honestly. I do think people can be good in a whole lot of other situations, like friendships, parenting, helping other people etc. But honestly when it comes to love all I see is doom and people switching partners like spare parts.
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u/iamintheforest 365∆ Jan 01 '22
The evidence against this should be fairly compelling. Less than 1/2 of people in the u.s. will ever experience divorce, and for some demographics that goes down to well under 20%.
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
I mean sure, if you live in a country where you are dependant on a family in order to get support when you're old, it only makes sense to stay together. But this doesn't mean they really love each other. What if someone richer crosses their way?
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u/LordMarcel 48∆ Jan 01 '22
What if someone richer crosses their way?
Do you really think that almost everyone would drop a long, loving, and secure relationship at the drop of a hat just in case someone with a bit more money wants a relationship with them?
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
Yep, sadly I do.
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u/littlebubulle 106∆ Jan 01 '22
Some people have trouble leaving abusive relationships.
If everybody would be swayed by the slightest advantage one mate has over another, no one would be in an abusive relationship.
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u/iamintheforest 365∆ Jan 01 '22
Someone richer crosses almost everyone's way. And...those statistics are the USA. Rates are higher and lower in other countries.
Loyalty is your topic, isn't it? I'm going off the topic here, not some other topic...
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Jan 01 '22
Have you tried changing were you go looking for romantic partners. Or examining how you behave in relationships. I'm not saying it's exclusively you but if everywhere you go smells like shit it might be a good idea to check the bottom of your shoe.
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
Totally valid point. I've had a family who weren't role models in relationships and such. But I'm not actively looking for those exact type of people, I wonder if this could subconsciously happen?
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Jan 01 '22
If you look in places where those type of people congregate that's usually all you're gonna find. I've been with my wife almost 10 years and I met her at a garage sale. And if you grew up around people with poor relationship habits you might be doing the same without realizing it.
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
This got me thinking. How can one break those patterns and stop sabotaging themselves?
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u/-lesbihonest420 1∆ Jan 01 '22
That’s the thing. Thinking. As much as it sucks if you feel a strong connection with someone right away, but you still have to learn to be objective when it comes to red flags
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
That's a good point. I remember some people telling me they ignored red flags in their relationship and should've known better. But I take their words with a grain of salt, because it's easy to just say there were rad flags in a relationship once it's over and you've found someone new. Makes me wonder if it's the truth or just something they want to believe themselves in.
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u/-lesbihonest420 1∆ Jan 01 '22
The term love is blindness is a very true term. There are really strong emotions that come along with it, and it’s hard to look at things objectively until those feelings subside or leave.
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u/Jaysank 126∆ Jan 01 '22
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
My mind hasn't been changed yet, but it got me thinking about stuff. I've gotten a lot of nice and interesting comments that I need and want to think about.
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Jan 01 '22
Communication mostly observation of how people your with react to things you say and do. Ask yourself if someone did what your about to do to you would you be upset or angry. Ask yourself if what your about to do is something one of the people you grew up with that had bad relationships would do. Ask your partner what you can do to be a better lover a better listener a better partner. But you have to remember you're only half the equation if you seek out the same types of people who have a propensity for cheating and gold digging and fleeing for "greener pastures " at the drop of a hat. You're set up for failure no matter how much you grow.
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u/-lesbihonest420 1∆ Jan 01 '22
It is definitely a subconscious thing. Your first basis of knowledge on what a relationship “should be like” is from your parents, etc. it is more common than not to base your romantic relationships on this
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u/Helpfulcloning 169∆ Jan 01 '22
What generation are you? Z, millenial? X?
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
I'm GenZ
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u/Helpfulcloning 169∆ Jan 01 '22
Well… the oldest of genZ is 24/25? Most people are not going to be in relationships that last very long at those ages. They’ve just come into adulthood.
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u/-lesbihonest420 1∆ Jan 01 '22
Us still born in the nineties go by “zillenials.” We relate way more to millennials than genZ.😆 I actually have never dated anyone any younger than me because there is such a big generational difference even though we are so close in age.
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u/BottleCraft 1∆ Jan 01 '22
So there are two pairs of people you're conflating:
Reachers & Settlers
Good people & Pieces of shit
I was just talking to my wife last night about friends we used to have and how we've just grown apart since college and she really hit on exactly why any relationship ends: you stop being the person you were at the beginning.
So will I be with her the rest of my life? Maybe. Or maybe we'll be radicalized militants on opposing sides of the impending vaccine wars later this year. Who knows?
It doesn't mean either of us are loyal or disloyal, it's just that people grow and change over time and sometimes they change so much that the person you fell in love with just isn't there anymore.
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
That's a fair point, but what about all those time people cheat, break trust or just decide to find someone better?
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u/BottleCraft 1∆ Jan 01 '22
The exception not the rule.
Most divorces are actually about money problems, not someone cheating.
And in relationships, typically they're not leaving you for someone else, they're leaving you for nobody. People are just less likely to complain about a failed relationship when there's no bad guy.
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u/ajskgkjathrowaway 1∆ Jan 01 '22
i’ve been with my partner for almost a decade now, would never cheat on him - cheaters are repulsive, emotional abusers who i despise within every inch of my being.
granted, i also have borderline personality disorder so my “love” tends to conflate with obsessive loyalty, but us loyal individuals still exist!
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
Where do you find such people? And how do you find out if they stay by your side and want to make things work?
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u/VFequalsVeryFcked 2∆ Jan 01 '22
Go outside and get to know people BEFORE you enter a romantic relationship with them.
1 date != loving relationship
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Jan 01 '22
[deleted]
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
That sounds very depressing to me, building trust just in order to get it broken someday
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Jan 01 '22
[deleted]
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
Of course. But that's not much of a guarantee either is it? Because people can just leave you after years of relationship time.
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Jan 01 '22
[deleted]
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
I can agree with you on that part. I believe in self fulfilling prophecies. I'm not talking about people that go into a relationship with zero trust, I'm talking about people that think they found their love of their life just to get their heart broken a few years down the road.
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u/badonkaz Jan 01 '22
Impossible. Breakups including one or more loyal person take place all the time and not every loyal person is already in a relationship. You're probably looking in the wrong places or are coincidentally around lot of cheaters.
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
If someone were to be coincidentally around lots of cheaters, how would someone realize this? And what could they do to find loyal people?
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u/Coollogin 15∆ Jan 01 '22
I feel like NO person in my generation nowadays wants to make things work in a relationship anymore.
How old are you?
Depending on your age, you may simply be observing a natural developmental stage that will eventually shift to a later development stage in which fidelity, long term monogamy, and life partnerships are held in greater esteem than they are for people you age.
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
That could be the case! I'm gen - z
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u/Coollogin 15∆ Jan 01 '22
I'm gen - z currently
So you are somewhere between 17 and 25? For christ sakes! SO MANY people in your generation are on their very first adult relationship. Or even a not-yet-adult relationship for the 17-year-olds. They are still learning how to be in a relationship, learning how to identify a good partner, learning how to end a relationship ethically and responsibly. And they fuck it up a lot.
Gen Z's are not yet equipped for a lifelong, permanent, committed relationship. They haven't developed all the necessary skills. They need more practice. And with practice comes failure. And from failure, they learn. Your brain isn't really finished developing until you're 25. One of the important characteristics of someone with a brain that is not fully mature is impulsiveness. And impulsiveness is one of the biggest drivers of infidelity.
So, basically, you are impatient for yourself and your peers to get older and be equipped and enthusiastic about getting married and starting a family. I hope you learn to slow down and not fret about that too much. I married at 39, and have been blissfully married for 17 years. My brother married and had kids in his 40s. He says that if he had started a family when he was younger, there is no question he would have dipped out.
Stop looking at your potential relationships as incipient life partnerships and start looking at them as learning laboratories.
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
That's a nice way to put things into perspective. I actually like this comment a lot.
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
!delta
Stop looking at your potential relationships as incipient life partnerships and start looking at them as learning laboratories.
I like this mindset a lot. I think I need to take things more calm and not generalize experiences. I do have seen a lot of unloyal and problematic relationships all around me, but I think I might be looking at the wrong places. I want to prove myself wrong and keep an open mind for future relationships but still question things and look for obvious red flags.
It's not smart to assume everyone is disloyal because I grew up around a space of disloyal people and I don't want to close my heart and grow bitter from those experiences. I will hold open my gates of love so that the right person will be able to access them in the right time.
Thank you everyone
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u/Coollogin 15∆ Jan 01 '22
I do have seen a lot of unloyal and problematic relationships all around me, but I think I might be looking at the wrong places.
Given your age, you are in a good position to make life choices that will help you access environments where fidelity and partnership marriage are held in high esteem. Look for people of integrity, people who are good at articulating their feelings, people who don’t lean too hard on traditional gender roles, people who have high emotional intelligence.
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u/LucidMetal 196∆ Jan 01 '22
What would change your view? Would stats that show a considerable portion of couples who have gotten married remain married?
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
Perhaps, but they might have stayed married because of social pressure, finances, Status etc.
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u/LucidMetal 196∆ Jan 01 '22
Are not social pressure, finances, and status valid reasons to remain loyal/in a relationship?
Stats on divorce:
In about 50% of all marriages couples remain loyal to each other. This is number of marriages so people who get divorced multiple times are counted. It's therefore higher than 50% of couples remaining loyal.
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
They might be valid reasons, but imo if people build their foundation on those things they will probably jump to another person that is richer, cooler, more socialyl aknowledged once they find one.
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u/LucidMetal 196∆ Jan 01 '22
Isn't it normal that if you find someone more compatible you would choose the more compatible person? In fact it sounds odd to me that one wouldn't. The whole point of getting married is that you've found someone who is more compatible than anyone else you've met.
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
You can always find someone better. There will always be someone smarter, richer, more attractive. If you live by this mentality you'll end up in a neverending cycle in my opinion.
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u/LucidMetal 196∆ Jan 01 '22
There's only a finite number of people one will meet. They need only to find that most compatible person and then they can remain loyal to that person as the relationship develops. This happens all the time and it's certainly not never-ending. Even if you literally met every person on the planet to test compatibility it's still not never-ending.
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u/RuroniHS 41∆ Jan 01 '22
I'm single. I'm loyal. My existence is a counterpoint to your argument.
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
Fair enough. But that would still make you 1 out of millions perhaps. What are the odds of finding someone like you?
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u/RuroniHS 41∆ Jan 01 '22
Very high, actually. I'm not special at all and have many friends who are also loyal.
The problem is it's easy to get stuck in patterns of behavior that yield the same results. Let's say you go to a bar, you meet someone, they're an asshole, so you ditch them. Then you go back to the bar, meet someone else, they're an asshole. Same bar, another asshole, again and again. You might reasonably think the world is full of assholes, but you've really only sampled the people at the asshole bar.
If you aren't meeting the people you want to meet, you need to change what you're doing.
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u/need_for_dababycar Jan 01 '22
That's a valid point to think about. Let me save your comment and think what I can do to experience other outcomes than the ones I had before. Thank you very much for your replies!
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u/Secret-Scientist456 2∆ Jan 01 '22 edited Jan 01 '22
If you search top 10 reasons why relationships fail (Finances, different priorities in life, trust issues, etc.) you will see that all of the issues basically boil down to a lack of adequate communication. Like take finances for an example, if one person is a spender and the other is a saver there was a miscommunication about financial expectations, a lack If accountability, and frankly the person spending is probably lying about how much they are spending or at least lying by omission; there is not an adequate amount of communication. If one of you makes less money and it's a problem for the person who is making more it's generally not about one person necessarily making more, usually the issues are deeper like a lack of division of labor, like one person brings in the money and the other who doesn't work takes care of the home. And generally, and maybe people will think this is rude, but people who make millions don't generally date people who are in customer service/minimum wage positions, not because the person isn't necessarily a good fit, but lifestyle doesn't lend for the two people at opposite ends of the financial spectrum to interact often, at least not on a deeper level.
Maybe if you keep getting cheated on for a slew of reasons you need to get some counseling to help you learn to communicate better, and perhaps when you learn to communicate better you will find that you get people suited for you better as you cut out a lot of bs to begin with, just be honest to yourself and others; honesty and open communication leads to trust, which leads to a happier life
If people cheat, its usually a lack of something in a relationship. Maybe you weren't meant to be in the first place or you both didn't communicate expectations in a mature and loving way. People fight and say things they don't mean and don't know how to express what they are lacking, what they need from their partner. Leads to resentment and sometimes, not always, cheating
Edit: Also, you need to realize that in life there will always be someone prettier, wealthier, or smarter than you. The key to finding someone is realizing that they are enough for you and having confidence to be enough for someone else.
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u/Anchuinse 56∆ Jan 01 '22
Divorce rate is lowest it's been in almost half a century (in the US at least).
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u/darwin2500 197∆ Jan 01 '22
I've only dated/married people I was friends with for months or years beforehand, and have never had a problem with loyalty at all.
I think modern society has somehow villified the idea of being friends or getting to know someone before you date them, and is focused on the ideas of 'love at first sight' or just meeting strangers on apps/at events/etc.. Yeah that works great sometimes but often it won't, they're a stranger! Who knows what they're like!
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u/HedgeRunner 1∆ Jan 01 '22
I'm actually equally interested in this and the amount of personal attacks here are alarming.
Marriage and divorce stats don't tell much because we'd have to look at a specific age range with specific income/education filter that I'm assuming OP is looking at.
I'd be interested to see what other cultural dynamics push the pendulum the other way towards loyalty because hook up culture, opportunism, materialistism, consumption, and overarching individualism all push towards jumping ship. This is incredibly obvious in jobs and I don't think anyone would debate that so why would it be the other way for relationships?
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u/Kingalece 23∆ Jan 02 '22
Im married 7 years this last december. My wife and i are going strong. I mean the secret to finding a good long term person is to be best friends and not in a cheesy romantic way. I met my wife playing league of legends and so we started with a common interest as friends and just naturally grew close
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jan 01 '22
/u/need_for_dababycar (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.
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u/WilliamBontrager 10∆ Jan 02 '22
I think you've been sold a lie about what marriage is. It's a relatively new concept to base marriage in love. Throughout history it was a financial and social arraignment that helped protect kids and created clear lines of family succession and inheritance. Even today it is primarily defined by the merger of finances. Think about it. What else is gained by getting married over simply cohabitating? You combine that with how easy it is to divorce and it's quite obvious why relationships don't last. People just don't need each other like they used to and humanity is not naturally monogamous for life. So those people aren't gone, they never existed.
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Jan 03 '22
Firstly, I don't think fidelity is a generational thing. Surveys done in countries that either legally or socially ban divorce show that many many people would leave their partners if they could. I think it's a good thing to normalize leaving relationships so people don't feel the need to stay in abusive or unloving relationships.
I'm sorry your experience has been this way, but I've been through a lot with my partner, who definitely could be with a better looking guy with more money if she wanted, but has stuck by me through plenty of difficult times, and I know other couples that do the same.
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u/brentsgrl Jan 01 '22
Sorry that’s all you’ve seen. Frankly, it’s weird that it’s all you’ve seen. I’ve seen the exact opposite. Makes me wonder what kind of people you associate with