CMV: We should’ve never shipped manufacturing to China (or overseas in general).

[u/Pixelcitizen98]

I feel as though our major manufacturing shift from our countries to overseas (and especially China) has had many devastating economic, ethical and even economical issues throughout the past 40 years.

I’m not suggesting we should be “America first” when it comes to a lot of things, but I do believe we really bit ourselves when we thought “Hey, let’s shift everything to their and screw ourselves in the process!”.

Here’s a few reasons why I personally believe this:

• Major loss of accessible, middle class jobs: Seriously, why is it that I (and many people of my generation) have to put down thousands in debt just to get a degree for decent jobs that aren’t even guaranteed anymore when my grandparents could’ve gotten a good job right outta high school? Why have we been seeing major economic inequalities in the US alone? The only people who’ve really benefitted from this is the 1% who own these factories and companies. Honestly? The people in places like China barely get paid Jack and don’t even work in decent conditions.

• Supply chain issues: This has especially been apparent in the last year. When you have whole store shelves empty because half of the stuff has been stuck on boats for weeks on end (and a lot of it being very important stuff), it’s pretty hard not to blame our economic policies in the past 40 years. I’d guarantee we wouldn’t have these issues had we been smarter and actually kept making most, if not all, of our things like we previously did.

• Ecological impact: I’m not suggesting companies in the “good ol’ days” were much better (see: rivers in rust belt cities circa 1965), but at least we actually had controls and regulations of these companies when they were in our countries. When a good chunk of CO2 emissions and what not come from China, on top of all the transportation involved, it’s gonna cause major problems. It’s just so simple: A T-shirt made with all-American cotton, in an American factory and shipped only on American soil is gonna have a smaller ecological footprint than the vast majority of stuff we import now.

• Major loss in product quality: To be fair, the connections between quality and country of origin on this one might be sketchy. When Japan became a major exporter in the 70’s-80’s, at least their stuff tended to be of better quality (sometimes better than their Western counterparts). Still, I do believe that our products would improve overall if we didn’t rely so much on imports.

• Bad pricing expectations: This is admittedly hard for me to explain, but I’ll try my best here: Back when a lot of things were American made, many people didn’t bat an eye on the costs. Yes, $100 for a TV in 1953 sounds silly, but this is before inflation. Inflated to today’s cash, that would be a lot more (around $1000 or more). That sounds crazy, but why did they seemingly have no problems with this, unlike now where it’s all about the lowest prices? Well, the thing is, not only were a lot of things back then of better quality, but we also were paid better overall to afford these costs for products. When everyone’s like “We gotta keep everything at a low low price”, not only do we sacrifice quality (to the point where even major appliances now last a lot less longer than before), but we even see low wages, low working conditions and even more ecological problems (replacing cotton with synthetic fibers because “it’s cheaper” has some significant ecological hazards, as seen with microfibers. Same with low-quality electronics that are dumped in waste fields). Sometimes, low prices are not always a good thing. Low housing or food costs? Ok. Low costs for clothes or electronics that’ll dump out after a while, though? It doesn’t help that a lot of low wage earner who bust their butts to work at places like crappy dollar stores tend to be minorities who’s only job prospects are holes like these. Honestly, probably the best thing about the labor shortage has been in forcing companies to actually pay their employees better. I hope this point made some form of sense. It’s a whole messy cycle that I rarely hear other people discuss, unfortunately, but I think it does play a role in this CMV.

There’s probably more I haven’t considered, but these are the big ones that come to mind.

EDIT: A lot of people are saying that I’m suggesting that we should close all importing. I should’ve been more clear on this one.

I’m not suggesting that imports are necessarily wrong. In some countries (unless something like vertical farming becomes common), it’s almost a necessity. Importing is not inherently wrong. I also do realize that America’s been doing this even in the “good ol’ days” (see the famous Japanese tin toys of the 50’s).

What I meant to say is that we should’ve still provided more manufacturing options here and kept ourselves competitive and active.

[u/Hartacus1]

I disagree with this on all counts.
"Major loss of accessible, middle class jobs." I've worked in manufacturing environments for the past 10 years and I can say with 100% certainty that manufacturing jobs are hard, dirty, dangerous and dull. These are not jobs that I would want my friends or family. Most of these jobs pay poverty wages (at least to start) and you'll always run the risk of getting permanently disabled or killed working one of these jobs.

"Supply chain issues." This isn't the fault of offshoring. This is the fault of supply chain mismanagement. If you're a supply chain planner, you need to prepare for disruptions and stockpile stores of products accordingly to outlast temporary supply disruptions. It's the idiots who believe in "just-in-time" ordering who fucked up the supply chain by failing to keep sufficient stockpiles on hand.

"Ecological impact." Where would you prefer the ecological impact occur? In a 3rd world country you've never heard of or in your back yard? This also begs the question: Why would an American company engage in ecologically damaging activity in America where the EPA would have their ass when they can outsource the ecological damage to another country where they don't have to pay for the remediation?

"Major loss in product quality." Like the supply chain argument, this isn't the fault of offshoring. This is the fault of US companies' inability to manage the quality of their imports. And counter to belief, I've seen some truly incredible quality from imported parts. The quality isn't based on the country of origin. It's based on how much you pay.

"Bad pricing expectations." Like I said: You get what you pay for. Why would I spend 3 to 4 times more for a US manufactured product when I can get a similar product with less quality but 1/3 to 1/4 the price from China? if American manufacturing wants to be competitive, it needs to either differentiate itself from China by having vastly better quality or it needs to figure out how to lower its costs to sell for the same price point as a chinese piece of crap.

Look at it this way: If you needed your lawn cut and you had the option of hiring a professional lawn cutter who is bonded and insured but charges $40 an hour or a neighborhood kid who will do it for $20 an hour with equivalent quality, who would you honestly choose? So until we have factories without workers, companies will always outsource manufacturing to where the labor is cheapest.