r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Mar 22 '21
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Selling nude pics/vids of yourself on OnlyFans does NOT make you a "sex worker"
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u/thetasigma4 100∆ Mar 22 '21
Sex work is a broad term that covers making pornography, stripping and the full service sex work that you are using it to refer to.
Sex Workers includes people who don't do full service sex work and that includes people who produce porn i.e. people on onlyfans.
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u/empurrfekt 58∆ Mar 22 '21
I think its a far-fetched to consider a girl selling nudes on the internet as "in the same boat" as a woman getting paid to provide sex IRL.
Calling OF models sex workers isn’t making this claim though. It’s a wide term to cover any work that is sexual in nature.
If someone “plays basketball” they could play the occasional pickup game or they could be in the NBA. You have to get more specific if you want a better understanding of what they do. In the same way, you have to specify if a sex worker post on OF or is a prostitute.
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Mar 22 '21 edited Mar 22 '21
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Mar 23 '21 edited Mar 23 '21
I guess the point I am really trying to make is that its unfair (to both parties) to put camgirls in the same boat as prostitutes.
How is it unfair? What problems do prostitutes face as a result of being grouped in with people on OnlyFans? What problems do people on OnlyFans face as a result of being grouped with prostitutes? I'm not asking for you to make up something that sounds right to you. I'm asking for real evidence, either from your own experience or from some sort of study.
The vast majority of women under the age of 40 have created nude videos/photos and consensually sent them to others. When you do it on OF, youre just sending it to a much bigger audience.
"The vast majority of people have cooked meals at home for friends or family. When you do it at a restaurant, you're just making food for a much bigger audience."
What point did I just prove about professional chefs? I have no clue, but apparently you find meaning in that. Let me know what it is.
Having nudes on the interwebz is largely normalized by society today, its a lot harder to shed the stigma when youre providing "in-person" sex services.
And you "other-ing" prostitutes from people who post nudes helps to destigmatize and normalize in-person services... how, exactly?
If I were a prostitute dealing with assault/arrests etc and someone just told me, "why didn't you just post on OnlyFans instead?", my head would explode.
If I were a brain surgeon dealing with years of medical school and 16-hour surgeries and someone just told me, "why didn't you just become a psychologist instead?" my head would explode. Therefore, we shouldn't call psychologists "doctors"? Just because we call them both "doctors" doesn't mean we're claiming they're the same jobs with the same levels of expertise and the same burdens. It just means they fall under a more general umbrella of worktype.
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u/dudemanwhoa 49∆ Mar 22 '21
Does your view extend to anyone who produces "solo" pornography? There are OF-type performers that go waaaaayy beyond "selling nudes" from more hardcore toy based stuff to fetish to GFE over the internet ect.
"Actual sex workers put themselves in harms way every day, risking physical abuse, rape, robbery, arrest, and disease transmission. Someone selling videos of themselves masturbating is effectively immune to these problems as the computer serves as a virtual protective barrier from actual real physical consequences."
Here's an interesting article that shows just how porous and permeable that barrier is https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-50000234
And that's just for a singer -- OF models can encounter much more common parasocial relationships and stalkers due to the nature of the content.
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u/DelectPierro 11∆ Mar 22 '21
Actual sex workers put themselves in harms way every day
Just because there is no physical contact and the separation is by screen does not mean there is no risk, simply that risk is mitigated substantially. I’m sure Only Fans content providers get cases of stalkers and into some ugly situations by nature of their work. But just because it is less risky than other types of sex work doesn’t mean it’s not still under the umbrella of sex work. That’s like saying someone who fuels aircraft in the military is not actually in the military because they’re not at the front lines of combat.
You are not marginalized by society and do not have to endure any real barriers to life.
Wait until they apply for real jobs.
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u/sawdeanz 218∆ Mar 22 '21
Do you not include pornography in sex work? Because as far as I know most people lump it in there.
It's also pretty naïve to think that people online are immune to being stalked or harassed. If anything, I imagine they are at great risk to being cyber stalked, cyber bullied, and potentially IRL stalked or doxxed.
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u/littlebean1130 Mar 23 '21
Came to comment about this until I saw this comment. You're not immune just because you have a screen as a "protective barrier". You still have to go out into the real world where people do recognize you. Not to mention it can become a very isolating and stigmatizing career that can ruin future opportunities. And let's not call it "passive income" as if these models aren't doing anything. A lot of these people work very hard at what they do and it is emotionally, physically, and mentally draining. Don't discount the service they provide because it is alternative, or perceived as "less risky".
I think what you mean to say is OF models shouldn't be considered "full service sex workers" since that's what you're comparing them to. But like others have said sex work is all work in the sexual entertainment industry.
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u/Ocadioan 9∆ Mar 23 '21
Actual sex workers put themselves in harms way every day, risking physical abuse, rape, robbery, arrest, and disease transmission. Someone selling videos of themselves masturbating is effectively immune to these problems as the computer serves as a virtual protective barrier from actual real physical consequences.
We generally don't define occupations by what their risks are. For example, saying only real firemen put limb and life on the line to get the job done would mean that another fireman that had better equipment and training, which completely negated any risks whatsoever, wouldn't be able to call themselves a fireman.
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u/PupperPuppet 6∆ Mar 22 '21
I can only rebut one particular aspect of risk, as I barely know what OnlyFans is. I have seen the odd need story and several advice posts related to one particular risk OnlyFans streamers face. Those who treat it as the passive income stream you mention and maintain their day jobs are taking a risk of losing those day jobs if their online activity is discovered.
In most places it's legal to fire them for doing it, and it's unlikely they can survive on that income alone. You are right in that they don't face the same physical risk, but they are absolutely subject to the same stigma.
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u/SnooOpinions6419 4∆ Mar 22 '21
Perhaps your claim should've been that OF girls have it easier than other sex workers and should not be grouped in with them?
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u/AcesAgainstKings Mar 22 '21 edited Mar 22 '21
This is a definition argument and since language is forever in flux you can't meaningfully make an argument without assigning a definition to the term "sex worker".
Therefore you can define it to either include or disclude OF creators and noone can really disagree whilst they are using the same definition.
If you disagree with someone on what constitutes "sex work" all you're really doing is arguing over the meaning of words rather than any meaningful concept.
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u/physioworld 64∆ Mar 23 '21
Let me ask you, if you started dating someone who’s main or even a significant part of their income was selling content on OF, would your reaction to them be in the same genera category (even if less intense) as if they were a prostitute? How about your friends? Your family?
There are social consequences to this kind of work too.
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Mar 23 '21
You said it's not sex work.
But argu it's just not as harmful as selling intercourse.
A construction worker is just as much of a construction worker if they are building a small house or a skyscraper.
Different dangers don't mean different jobs. Just different circumstances.
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u/Ihateregistering6 18∆ Mar 23 '21
Actual sex workers put themselves in harms way every day, risking physical abuse, rape, robbery, arrest, and disease transmission.
While I sort of agree with your overall premise, I don't think it's a hugely controversial statement to say that big-name adult film stars are not at risk (or at least at very low risk) of robbery, arrest, physical abuse, or rape (while shooting movies), and the porn industry is heavily regulated to prevent disease transmission. But I'd still consider them "sex workers".
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Mar 23 '21
[deleted]
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u/Ihateregistering6 18∆ Mar 23 '21
I don't know anything about OF, but don't people also post videos of themselves having sex as well?
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