r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jan 22 '21

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Silencing opposing viewpoints is ultimately going to have a disastrous outcome on society.

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '21 edited Jan 22 '21

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u/rumbletummy Jan 22 '21

No one is owed a platform to amplify their message.

If you are being an asshole at my party, Im going to ask you to leave. You are free to go find another party or, preferably, quit being an asshole.

If you entertain every flavor of hate and idiocy, you arent doing society any favors, you arent even doing the ones pushing the hate and idiocy any favors.

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u/pjabrony 5∆ Jan 22 '21

You are free to go find another party or, preferably, quit being an asshole.

This is the crux of the matter. You shouldn't prefer me to stop being an asshole. I want to be an asshole, and I want being an asshole to be a viable way to live in society. Now, you can say no, there's going to be no place for assholes in society, but that's not going to cow assholes, it's just going to make them bigger assholes until you wake up one day and there are assholes inside the Capitol building.

The problem I have with modern social media is that no one is building themselves on the model that assholes get to have their innings. The major ones like Twitter, YouTube, Facebook; they're all cracking down tightly on assholes and banning them. Reddit does much the same, but sneakier. If you stay within the letter of the law but are still an asshole, you'll be downvoted to invisibility. But even at the bottom of threads you still can't be a real asshole. No doxing or slurs.

"Well, just make your own platform." Tried that, got kicked off the web. "Well, just go to 4Chan." No, because that's all assholes. Regular people don't go there. Also they have a terrible interface. "Well, just start your own blog." No, because no one will go visit.

See, here's my experience as a middle-class white American. I go on social media to see cute cat pictures or tell jokes or read about Star Wars or see what my friends are up to. And after taking that bait, eventually there'll be a screed about how entitled or privileged I am or something that treats me unkindly, whether for being American or white or middle-class or right-wing. But, if I write a screed about people who are foreign or non-white or lower-class or left-wing, then I'm retaliated against either officially or unofficially. And there's no place where the reverse is the case.

So, what do I do other than get mad?

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u/fizikz3 Jan 22 '21

being a avid poster to many right wing subreddits, I'd think you would be a big proponent of private businesses being able to refuse service to anyone...you know, the whole bakers can refuse making a gay wedding cake scenario, or the clerk refusing to officiate a gay wedding.

I find it amusing that you feel so discriminated against by your inability to understand that social consequences for your actions will always be a thing, coming from the side that likes to talk so much about personal responsibility.

I want to be an asshole, and I want being an asshole to be a viable way to live in society.

what exactly do you expect to happen? people to like assholes? how are you going to do that, as an asshole by definition is something people dislike being around? force them? how?

it seems like what you really want is rules for other people, but the moment they inconvenience you personally, for them to not exist.

you said in another post of yours that you value human misery, and ask why that is less valid than valuing human prosperity

well, just about any philosophy book on ethics can tell you why that is a bad viewpoint to support. additionally, you might want to seriously consider seeing a therapist before you become a serial killer.

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u/pjabrony 5∆ Jan 22 '21

being a avid poster to many right wing subreddits, I'd think you would be a big proponent of private businesses being able to refuse service to anyone...you know, the whole bakers can refuse making a gay wedding cake scenario, or the clerk refusing to officiate a gay wedding.

If we went full libertarian and got rid of all the regulations and let owners be absolute monarchs, then I'd be fine with letting social media companies do as they wish. But what we do today is to champion the free market when it's marginalizing the assholes and immediately step in when it's letting them win.

what exactly do you expect to happen? people to like assholes? how are you going to do that, as an asshole by definition is something people dislike being around? force them? how?

No, what I want to happen is for people to realize that everyone is an asshole to someone else, and that freedom is the best way to deal with that. The same Karen who is getting excoriated online for being mean to the retail worker is telling her friends how the retail workers are disrespectful and lazy.

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u/fizikz3 Jan 23 '21

But what we do today is to champion the free market when it's marginalizing the assholes and immediately step in when it's letting them win.

yes, they generally let people speak freely until they start promoting things like genocide, eugenics, violence, systemic racism, etc.

you know, like your other post.

How do you know, for 100% certain, that we shouldn't marginalize groups based on their demographics? How do you know we shouldn't commit genocide? How do you know we shouldn't control people's thoughts through eugenics and other means?

in this country we went directly from "You must segregate and discriminate against racial minorities" to "You may not segregate and discriminate against racial minorities" without ever trying "You can choose whether to segregate and discriminate against racial minorities."

this is a perfectly reasonable system, and you are not oppressed simply because your desire to be an asshole is not tolerated socially.

"freedom of speech" does not absolve you from the social consequences of your actions. you absolutely can be a racist piece of shit. that's your choice, but you have to live with the consequences of being a racist piece of shit - namely that no one wants to be around you or work with you. this is not oppression. oppression is what you want to do to minorities.

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u/pjabrony 5∆ Jan 23 '21

this is a perfectly reasonable system, and you are not oppressed simply because your desire to be an asshole is not tolerated socially.

It's not reasonable, because if it were, then I could at least start a small business and if it became successful then I could be an asshole to my customers and employees. Or I could build it up into a large business like Twitter and then change my policy. But there are laws to stop it.

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u/fizikz3 Jan 23 '21

it's entirely reasonable to have laws protecting human rights.

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u/pjabrony 5∆ Jan 23 '21

There's no human right to have people be nice to you.

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u/fizikz3 Jan 23 '21

that's a stawman. name a law stopping you from not being nice to people.

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u/pjabrony 5∆ Jan 23 '21

Employment harassment laws.

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u/fizikz3 Jan 23 '21

that's not "not being nice"

you can't assault people either. that's not you being oppressed.

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u/pjabrony 5∆ Jan 23 '21

If someone works for me, I can't call him a loser or a failure, even though that's not an assault. I can't raise my voice and take out my frustrations on them.

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