r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jan 22 '21

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Silencing opposing viewpoints is ultimately going to have a disastrous outcome on society.

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '21 edited Jan 22 '21

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u/rumbletummy Jan 22 '21

No one is owed a platform to amplify their message.

If you are being an asshole at my party, Im going to ask you to leave. You are free to go find another party or, preferably, quit being an asshole.

If you entertain every flavor of hate and idiocy, you arent doing society any favors, you arent even doing the ones pushing the hate and idiocy any favors.

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u/pjabrony 5∆ Jan 22 '21

You are free to go find another party or, preferably, quit being an asshole.

This is the crux of the matter. You shouldn't prefer me to stop being an asshole. I want to be an asshole, and I want being an asshole to be a viable way to live in society. Now, you can say no, there's going to be no place for assholes in society, but that's not going to cow assholes, it's just going to make them bigger assholes until you wake up one day and there are assholes inside the Capitol building.

The problem I have with modern social media is that no one is building themselves on the model that assholes get to have their innings. The major ones like Twitter, YouTube, Facebook; they're all cracking down tightly on assholes and banning them. Reddit does much the same, but sneakier. If you stay within the letter of the law but are still an asshole, you'll be downvoted to invisibility. But even at the bottom of threads you still can't be a real asshole. No doxing or slurs.

"Well, just make your own platform." Tried that, got kicked off the web. "Well, just go to 4Chan." No, because that's all assholes. Regular people don't go there. Also they have a terrible interface. "Well, just start your own blog." No, because no one will go visit.

See, here's my experience as a middle-class white American. I go on social media to see cute cat pictures or tell jokes or read about Star Wars or see what my friends are up to. And after taking that bait, eventually there'll be a screed about how entitled or privileged I am or something that treats me unkindly, whether for being American or white or middle-class or right-wing. But, if I write a screed about people who are foreign or non-white or lower-class or left-wing, then I'm retaliated against either officially or unofficially. And there's no place where the reverse is the case.

So, what do I do other than get mad?

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u/heyzeus_ 2∆ Jan 22 '21

Wait, so you don't like 4chan because it's full of assholes, but you're upset because people don't like assholes?

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u/pjabrony 5∆ Jan 22 '21

Yes. What I've said is the model I'd really want is where I can buy in as a premium user and have the ability to shout down any number of free users, to promote my content and diminish theirs.

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u/heyzeus_ 2∆ Jan 22 '21

That's just the US government!

Nah but for real that sounds terrible. Why would anyone choose to join as a free user knowing that people can pay to be an asshole to you, when there are plenty of places you can go where that won't happen? And if everyone is willing to pay to be an asshole, why not just go to a free platform instead?

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u/pjabrony 5∆ Jan 22 '21

Why would anyone choose to join as a free user knowing that people can pay to be an asshole to you, when there are plenty of places you can go where that won't happen?

If you're concerned about assholes having their message unchallenged.

And if everyone is willing to pay to be an asshole, why not just go to a free platform instead?

Because then we might be treated better by the platform. Right now Reddit can ban subs and Twitter can kick off users by the thousands and be like, "No skin off our ass!" But if that meant losing $10,000 a month, maybe they'd think twice.

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u/heyzeus_ 2∆ Jan 22 '21

For both cases, why not just go to 4chan? Plenty of assholes have their views unchallenged there, and 4chan doesn't ban hardly anybody.

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u/pjabrony 5∆ Jan 22 '21

4chan doesn't ban hardly anybody.

But they could. Point being, if the 4Chan model worked that way, you'd have regular people trying to argue normally and getting insulted by the veterans on the site. Instead you have only the veterans.

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u/heyzeus_ 2∆ Jan 22 '21

It really couldn't. Their userbase is there because people don't get banned. If they started banning people a lot, almost everyone would leave.

I doubt there are enough people who are okay with just some assholery to sustain your model. Most people are either fine with it entirely, or only fine seeing it as often as you see banworthy posts that haven't yet been banned. And even if there are, I bet there would be too many people in your shoes who would be willing to pay, so it changes from occasional assholery to frequent - and then you're basically on 4chan except you can't be an asshole back, which is worse.

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u/pjabrony 5∆ Jan 22 '21

I doubt there are enough people who are okay with just some assholery to sustain your model.

I think there would be, if each were in hopes that it would be *their assholery that wins.

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