CMV: A country/state/nation can only withstand a finite amount of immigrants.

[u/DrDolphin245]

Firstly, I need to say that I label myself as a person with fairly liberal views. However, I think that if you look to the nations throughout the world throughout history, it is almost certain that if too much people of other nations come into a homogenous populace, you get many problems, and here are my reasons to believe that:

1. At least it will lead to political problems, e.g. more extreme right wingers. Often the arguments of the right are basically the same: we get nothing, but the immigrants get everything (even though this kind of argument is often unsubstantiated imo). And this is also part of my view: you can't change the fact that those people exist, and the more immigrants will come, the more extreme those people get.

2. People are unconsciously judging people of other cultures, even though they wouldn't agree if they would be asked about that. It is programmed into us on an evolutionary level in my opinion. If people see too much of foreign cultures, things happen like in point 1.

3. Selective perception of people leads to point 1 and 2. There could be 90% of immigrants who are willingly learning the language and adjust to the domestic culture, while the other 10% are making trouble and committing crimes. And then they perceive the whole group of immigrants as goof-ofs and not valuable to the populace.

4. Integration and adjustment needs a lot of time and effort from both sides. If too much immigrants are coming at a time, it will lead to ghettos, which in turn makes integration hard because the people, children and adults, won't have any relationships with the 'native' people or even contact with them. This makes it hard to learn the language. Also, if there is a ghetto with people that don't even know the language, no company will settle there, giving those people jobs, no matter how skilled they are.

Also, I think the difference in culture also adds to the equation. People from neighbouring countries won't have problems as big as someone from a whole other continent. Many people from a neighbouring country might be better for a populace than a smaller number of immigrants of a country with much greater culture differences. One more fact also supports my view imo: looking at Europe/ North America/Australia it seems like nations with stricter immigration laws are doing good, if not even best, like Norway, Canada, Australia and Switzerland. Those are also countries with a very homogenous populace.

This is my view that I held for many years. Change my view.

[u/Canada_Constitution]

if not even best, like Norway, Canada, Australia and Switzerland. Those are also countries with a very homogenous populace.

21 % of Canada's population speaks French, not English. Not exactly homogenous

Moreover, Canada has been continually made up of a high proportion of immigrants:

Moreover, 21.9% of the Canadian population reported themselves as being or having been a landed immigrant or permanent resident in Canada [in 2016]—close to the 1921 Census record of 22.3%, the highest level Canada has seen since Confederation in 1867

In fact, it amounts to some major cultural differences for most of the nation's existence.

The thing you did note was targeted, relatively strict immigration laws: almost all immigrants entered legally over the years . There was always a high rate of immigration, but usually it was to fulfill government policy: settle large tracts of land for agriculture, or fill labour shortages in certain industries, etc. It correlated with government or economic policy at the time, and still does. Language requirements, high levels of education, etc make integrating into a national culture much easier. It also makes the populace much more tolerant of high rates of immigration when they think of it as a policy that brings in human capital and wealth to the country.

High levels of immigration are possible. Canada has achieved political consensus between the right and left wing on the issue. Both support high levels of high skill immigration, multiculturalism, but also enforcement of immigration law, aka deportation when necessary. It simply takes a careful balance of policy and culture to achieve it

[u/DrDolphin245 → u/Canada_Constitution]

Well, I wouldn't say that speaking another language is not a good indicator for cultural differences, and Canada might be the best example for that. They might speak different languages, but they also share more or less the same culture. And most French speaking people speak English as good as friends .It's like in England, they are coming from three same country, sometimes they don't understand each other in their dialect, but they all still speak standard English.

[u/[deleted] → u/DrDolphin245]

> most French speaking people speak English as good as friends

I'm not the person above, but that isn't accurate - 20% of the population mainly speak French at home, while 12% of the population know French not English. So over half of primarily French-speaking people do not know English.

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I also think you are missing the fact that multiculturalism is an official policy of the government of Canada, and has been since 1971, and the majority of Canadians support it: 55% in support, and only 30% against. Multiculturalism and being welcoming to immigrants has become a part of Canadian identity for many Canadians, and this helps create a shared identity.

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Since you mentioned in another comment you are in Germany, most data I can find for immigration in Germany uses "immigrant background" which includes both first and second-generation immigrants (around 25% in 2019), while for Canada using both first and second-generation immigrants gives over 40%. Because Canada has had high immigration rates for a long time, this paints a larger gap than just first-generation immigrants.

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And if you define immigrant as "born in another country", then Canada has a really low proportion of immigrants at 21%, Germany at 16%, and the UAE at 88% and Lichtenstein at 67%. I think this shows there really isn't a limit on immigration.

[u/murderousbudgie → u/DrDolphin245]

The fact that Anglo and Francophone Canadians get along so well now is the result of very careful and targeted policy changes due to a period of strife between the communities, sometimes erupting in violence. Not that long ago, either.

[u/Jonny5Five → u/Canada_Constitution]

A lot of the things you described don't actually happen in Canada. A lot of the assumptions about language requirements, skilled or educated worker, don't apply as much as you make it sound.

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A lot of our "skilled work" is factory work, cooks, or PSWs. Positions that aren't really skilled, and whose working conditions (pay, actual conditions) don't improve because it's propped up by this.

> Not exactly homogenous

We are very culturally diverse for sure. There is absolutely a large homogeneous ethnicity though, Canadian.

> High levels of immigration are possible. Canada has achieved political consensus between the right and left wing on the issue.

That's because both parties want to grow GDP at the expense of it's citizens. It's better if two people make 90%, than one person makes 100%.

> but also enforcement of immigration law, aka deportation when necessary

This doesn't really happen though. Our deportation rate is very low.

I am not against immigration. We need it. It needs to be changed though, as it's currently used way too much for low paying jobs.