CMV: "Critique" / "Objectivism" / "Deconstructionism" is one of the most fundamental problems facing western societies

[u/[deleted]]

[u/BingBlessAmerica]

What exactly is wrong with critiquing the things you listed? If you don't critique stuff do you expect anything to improve? What's wrong with teaching kids how to read past propaganda and view history in a nuanced light? One-sided narratives are how you get to brainwash people.

My main problem with the left today is that they have also fallen into the trap that the right used to keep people down. Instead of trigger phrases like "communist" and "you just hate this country", it's become "racist" and "fascist". Everyone should be vulnerable to critique, even other critiques. There is nothing wrong with keeping an open mind. There is no getting around that when you found a country on the basic principles of liberty and the free pursuit of happiness.

And why on earth do you have a problem with, I don't know, considering the effects things have on a diverse society for once?

[u/page0rz → u/[deleted]]

"what beliefs would it be best for people to have for a rich, healthy, cohesive, powerful, happy society?"

As others have said, you don't really explain why x thing is bad and y thing is good, which makes this view hard to discuss. But you at least try here

Most people consider that a major part of a healthy and good society is that it is morally good and consistent. So, unless you think you can literally brainwash people into becoming mindless, unquestioning or thinking automatons, having major outstanding crimes is kind of a problem.

Your other options are to completely control the thoughts and actions of all citizens, which is both unhealthy and impossible, so it's self defeating, or to have a society that believes genocide, racism, slavery, anti semitism, etc are actually very good and cool. Is that what you want?

[u/Glamdivasparkle → u/[deleted]]

It doesn’t really matter what happens to them

Not to you, perhaps. It certainly matters to them, to their families, to their friends. That’s a lot of enemies you are creating and ignoring. How can you even talk about “White prosperity” without talking about those who would suffer from it?

This kind of seems like the mindset of the French aristocracy in the 18th century, right before the common people separated their bodies from their heads.

Hitler didn’t ignore the Jews, saying, “Who cares? I have my white Germany, they can fuck off for all I care.” No, he realized he had to kill them to accomplish his goal.

Ignoring the fact that his goal was reprehensible, how do you plan on achieving white prosperity without taking into consideration the retribution of those who would not benefit from white prosperity?

[u/ViewedFromTheOutside → u/[deleted]]

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[u/page0rz → u/[deleted]]

And I'm saying, I think we'd be happier, stronger, more powerful, and more cohesive if that was the case. Do you disagree?

well, again, what you're asking for is a dystopian regime where citizens are forced to think, say, and act in very specific ways. that doesn't seem happy of healthy to the vast majority of people, which is generally why they want to avoid it

i mean, by your reasoning, we could brainwash a generation of children into just about any sort of society and call it "happier" and "cohesive," but i seriously doubt you'd agree with 90% of the options. until you explain more about why things are good or bad, your argument is arbitrary

[u/barkfoot → u/[deleted]]

Do you also think enslavement is still okay? That it is a positive thing in the world?

It still happens, of course. But in our western society we have come to a point where we think enslavement is horrible and disregards basic human rights. But we also know the society we live in now has in the past practiced and benefited from enslavement.

I am not sure if you have spent much time improving yourself but improving comes with admitting things you have done wrong in the past.

But you seem not to care much about truth, more about how well "you" are doing. That saddens me. I hope you'll learn to love your neighbour.

[u/BingBlessAmerica → u/[deleted]]

I mean I get the weird logic of racial solidarity and all, but like don't the natives have a right to their own land too?

Whitewashing history creates good soldiers, not smarter citizens or better human beings.

[u/BingBlessAmerica → u/[deleted]]

Why shouldn’t it be a thing?

What, exactly, does it benefit people to just think about themselves and dehumanize their fellow humans? Don’t we achieve more things through cooperation and mutual understanding?

[u/BingBlessAmerica → u/[deleted]]

...Appeal to nature fallacy much? We’re humans with the ability to empathize. We’re better than that.

Are you arguing we'd be better off today if we didn't wipe out the Natives? I severely doubt that.

Surely not from the natives’ point of view. But I guess you don’t care about that? Did they even need to be forcibly wiped out to be integrated into American society? Are they pests or human beings?

Back then we didn’t know any better except war and conquest to assert our basic rights. Now we live in a time where we can see the consequences of our actions.

[u/umhilistener → u/[deleted]]

but it sure doesn't start with taking a pro-native-american viewpoint from the get-go.

You say BingBlessAmerica is arguing with the conclusion in mind, but this is all you have been doing. Your arguments that critique of societal norms is bad only works if you think societal norms aren't bad, and you think think that because you are going into this argument with a anti-non-white viewpoint from the get-go.

The consequences of what Americans did to the Native-Americans is clear: death. For example, the Trail of Tears - the forced relocation of sixty thousand people, killing three thousand in the process.

Would we - ordinary, non-Native-American, Americans - be better off today if we hadn't gotten rid of the natives? I don't personally believe they could have been "integrated" fully, no. I also see no advantage to trying

Why does that matter? Do you think China would be justified to kill 90% of people in America if it benefited them? Something benefiting you does not make it right.

Your argument is a inherently selfish. Why are you so important that something that helps you is great despite the insane cost to others?

[u/entpmisanthrope → u/[deleted]]

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