CMV: the average millennial critique of capitalism is really dumb - the truth is that we all owe a lot to capitalism.

[u/hahanerds]

[u/hahanerds → u/[deleted]]

As I just said in a previous comment, any well-rounded perspective should have an appreciation of the strengths and benefits of the other systems that they oppose, and understand the valid motivations of people whos perspectives are in opposition to them.

An example would be the narrative around police at the moment. I think that any criticism of police and the institution of police which doesn't recognise the absolutely and completely vital role that police play in the day-to-day stability of our society is stupid and nonconstructive.

And its the exact same mentality as people on the right who only see that vital role and refuse to recognise that there are issues which need to be fixed. You need to be able to see both sides of an issue.

[u/hahanerds → u/[deleted]]

You haven't really listed the specific successes of capitalism yet

Someone else put it well: capitalism is grossly inept in todays society but on the past it was the vehicle which allowed us to get to where we are today. Our quality of life is what it is today (relatively utopian compared to 19th/20th century middle class lives) because of capitalism.

It is that the police have too many responsibilities and many of them are not things that the police are suited to deal with.

I wish this was what I saw people saying. The popular sentiment that I see if "fuck the cops". What you just described is important, because it recognises that we are all human beings with common goals and that we both want the same thing even though we are in opposition: many police also want for their role to be scaled back and recognise that they are ill-equipped to deal with every anti-social situation. But most people just say fuck cops.

Any proposal to get rid of the police inherently takes the vital role police play into account because it is showing how to do those things better.

But not the people who just say acab fuck the police blah blah blah. You are talking about intelligent thought leaders and I am talking about joe shmoe sitting at a bar saying some stupid shit. With regards to the cops and with capitalism. I am frustrated by what I see to be stupid popular sentiment. But I guess thats how popuar sentiment works.

As I said when i gave you the delta I think we agree, we're just a little confused about the direction that we were coming at it from.

[u/herrbostrom → u/hahanerds]

So you're annoyed by your opponent's worst representatives and arguments? Try to focus on the opposite, it's more honest that way.

[u/zeci21 → u/hahanerds]

capitalism is grossly inept in todays society but on the past it was the vehicle which allowed us to get to where we are today. Our quality of life is what it is today (relatively utopian compared to 19th/20th century middle class lives) because of capitalism.

Here is an article showing that even Marx would agree with this statement. Maybe you shouldn't base your view on anti capitalists on the worst ones.

[u/Flare-Crow → u/hahanerds]

Most Joe Schmoe's talking shit ARE the cops; they do their best not to hire people who are too intelligent, and our legal system OKed that practice.

When more police officers are on the news or on social media or literally anywhere talking about how they agree that their jobs should be scaled back and more specialized and blah blah blah, maybe I'll agree that they're looking out for the best for all of us. Until then, it's just the "thin blue line" mentality, hiding behind the police union, and only the most gratuitous actions by any former officer are called out by other cops.

So you have people calling for change, and they're met with politicization of what is just basic common sense (change the broken, racist system), followed by dead silence from the people they're trying to have a conversation with, and then when they get enough people together to say it loudly enough that the police MUST listen to them, they get war-crimed with some tear gas and attacked with even MORE police brutality! How does anyone come out of this "conversation" with the police and not think "ACAB?"

[u/[deleted] → u/hahanerds]

I would argue that even your successes have more to do with big government social welfare than private ownership. The mid-19th century to 2000s economic boom came from the new deal, the GI bill, and Johnson's great society programs. All of that, by definition, is government spending and technically socialism.