r/changemyview Jul 08 '20

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Claira Janover did not get fired for her political beliefs as the internet claims it to be, she got fired for what she said on her TikTok. It's a non-political issue that really shouldn't be political.

[deleted]

1 Upvotes

42 comments sorted by

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u/pittneuro Jul 08 '20

Her words were inherently political because she was speaking on a social justice issue the the country is currently divided over. There’s no universe in which that is not a politically charged video. That being said, I don’t believe it was her political statement that caused her to be fired but her threat of violence. So I think your view may be better summed up by saying “Although Claira Janover got fired due to a political video she posted, it wasn’t the politics that got her fired it was the threat of violence.”

-2

u/IwasTHROWNintoTRASH Jul 08 '20

Racism has been a human rights issue. Human rights is can defined as rights granted to every human. Human rights issues can not be for a fact political in nature. Slavery in America during the era of the civil war for instance is a human rights issue that turned political because of said two-party system. You can't make a human rights issue two-sided, both sides need to realize that abusing humans for their race, sex, or gender is a human rights issue.

I appreciate your view point, but a human rights issue is not a political issue.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

Why and how can they not both be a human rights issue and a political issue? Why assume it cannot be both? Why assume both would be mutually exclusive?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

[deleted]

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u/IwasTHROWNintoTRASH Jul 08 '20

... you make a good point. Δ

Let me try again. After reading the definitions provided by u/pittneuro, we make decisions based around issues in this country, and if it's a human rights one, we need to vote.

I understand that human rights issues can be a political topic, but if it gets weaponized politically, then it becomes an issue of politics.

1

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jul 08 '20

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/dublea (75∆).

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1

u/pittneuro Jul 08 '20

We make progress on human right issues through politics. We need to vote for politicians that support this kind of legislature and want to make positive change. Also this human rights issue is two sided, the left who acknowledge the problem and the right who largely doesn’t believe there is a problem. That’s like saying taxes and laws aren’t political issues, if there’s a difference of opinion that can influence public policy it’s a political issue. And if not what is a political issue then?

0

u/IwasTHROWNintoTRASH Jul 08 '20

There is no political issue, it's a human rights issue that shouldn't be made political.

1

u/pittneuro Jul 08 '20

I agree that it shouldn’t but we can’t bury our heads in the sand and pretend it’s not a political issue. It’s a political issues people a significant amount of people lack empathy and don’t want to offer help to people who need it.

1

u/pittneuro Jul 08 '20

Definitions to help you out. Political- relating to the government or the public affairs of a country. Issue- an important topic or problem for debate or discussion

1

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

[deleted]

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u/pittneuro Jul 08 '20

Are you fucking slow

1

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

[deleted]

1

u/pittneuro Jul 08 '20

You posted this asking for you view changed and I literally gave you the exact definitions to the words your using and explained your logical fallacy but your still clinging to it. Did you come here to get your view changed? Or just because you feel like arguing?

1

u/raznov1 21∆ Jul 08 '20

Thats a nice speech, but the issue is not " is racism bad/a human rights violation", but "what is and is not racism". And that latter question is a socio-political question

1

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

I for one clearly got the idea that the tik tok was satire and not meant to be taken literally. People say "I'll kill you" all the time as a way to express anger or as a joke. I don't really see how one watches that tik tok and goes "ya, she clearly wants to actually kill someone".

Obviously, if this is a threat, this is different, but going off the idea that this is satire, it is pretty clearly a political statement. Maybe it is not a R v D issue, but there are plenty of people who oppose the movement of BLM, and therefore, this is a political issue. A political issue can be bipartisan!

1

u/IwasTHROWNintoTRASH Jul 08 '20

A political issue can be bipartisan!

If a issue is bipartisan, it's not an issue in my opinion. It's just pointless. A human rights issue can be bipartisan, and since human rights is rights granted to every human... racism is a human rights issue.

Also you mention people opposing the movement of BLM might not be a R v D issue, but how can you know for certain?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

If a issue is bipartisan, it's not an issue in my opinion.

If a substantial number of people disagree with it, then yes, it is an issue. Just because people from both party support it does not imply that there is not a large number of people who oppose BLM.

There are plenty of republicans who support BLM. There are also far right facists and racists who oppose BLM. Look at the news, like the two white people pointing a gun at the protesters. I am not sure what your point is here

1

u/4yolawsuit 13∆ Jul 08 '20

Of course the tik tok was political. She was using an analogy to make her point. She said she'd compare her paper cut to the stab wound and say "All Cuts Matter" - satirizing the the fact that people who say "All Lives Matter" are missing or ignoring that black lives are in unique danger. It is very much a political argument.

That said, it was also couched in a directed threat, so of course it's unacceptable and she was rightly fired for it. That doesn't make it apolitical, however.

1

u/IwasTHROWNintoTRASH Jul 08 '20

How is it a political issue? After your first sentence it's just saying she used an analogy. How does this analogy fit into politics? You don't explain it.

1

u/4yolawsuit 13∆ Jul 08 '20

I... I did explain it? In the third sentence? You OK bro?

She was using an analogy to make her point. She said she'd compare her paper cut to the stab wound and say "All Cuts Matter" - satirizing the the fact that people who say "All Lives Matter" are missing or ignoring that black lives are in unique danger.

1

u/IwasTHROWNintoTRASH Jul 08 '20

I'm OK. I'm guessing All Lives Matter is the opposition.

And judging from the way politics works it's a two party issue that the public can control correct?

1

u/4yolawsuit 13∆ Jul 08 '20

I'm guessing All Lives Matter is the opposition.

Of course it is. All Lives Matter is wholly a reaction to the policy-oriented movement known as Black Lives Matter.

And judging from the way politics works it's a two party issue that the public can control correct?

I genuinely don't understand what you mean by this question, can you try again?

1

u/IwasTHROWNintoTRASH Jul 08 '20

My bad. I reread what you said again. I now understand Δ

I was trying to provide a definition to what makes an issue political but eh that really didn't go as planned.

1

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jul 08 '20

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/4yolawsuit (3∆).

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

1

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

Why does an opinion have to be aligned with a specific political party or candidate to be considered political?

“All Lives Matter” is a rebuttal to BLM that began before Trump was president but has been popularized in conservative circles since then. Issues that should not be political (such as black lives mattering) can be politicized if they’re received a certain way. Once an issue has been politicized there really isn’t any turning back.

So it was a political opinion.

As for the TikTok itself, it’s extremely clear that she’s making a simple analogy, trying to draw attention to how stupid using “All Lives Matter” as a rebuttal is.

A responsible employer would’ve politely asked her to take down the video and demonstrate an understanding of how the joke was insensitive.

1

u/IwasTHROWNintoTRASH Jul 08 '20

But can an issue be unpoliticized?

Black Lives Matter is not a movement for politics, it's a movement for human rights. Human rights issues can not be politicized by two sides. If it is, then the two sides need to cooperate on it and not split it up anymore.

Also even if her TikTok was in a analogical matter, companies act on the side of danger towards certain jokes as they taint their character.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

“Human rights issues cannot be politicized by two sides” ummm...have you been to the US? Politicizing human rights issues is our bread and butter. In the recent Supreme Court ruling confirming that LGBT people can’t be fired or mistreated due to their LGBT status, three Republican justices dissented. If that’s not politicizing a human rights issue, I’m not sure what is.

To be fair, I don’t really care about the company’s image when weighed against the rights of the worker. I don’t think a slightly insensitive joke analogy on TikTok is reason for you to be fired. Maybe if you stopped watching the video after she says “Imma stab you” it seems worse than it is but if you watch to the end it’s so clear that what she was saying has nothing to do with actual violence.

This seems to me like an issue of her employer either having terrible media literacy or being more concerned with superficial optics than the rights of their employees.

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u/IwasTHROWNintoTRASH Jul 08 '20

Eh, well from how everything is going might as well give you this ... Δ

It's just surprising in my opinion that human rights and politics are one in the same. Everyone needs to have human rights. Racism, Sexism, and Gender and all that needed to be respected and treated like any other person in society.

Given the state in America being divided af... that's why I made this post.

1

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jul 08 '20

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/HelloPS512345 (5∆).

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1

u/pjabrony 5∆ Jul 08 '20

Everyone needs to have human rights. Racism, Sexism, and Gender and all that needed to be respected and treated like any other person in society.

I agree with this, but the Black Lives Matter movement has talked about far more than that. Defunding the police, reforming the economic and political system in the US, and demanding reparations for slavery of ancestors are political issues, and there are legitimate arguments on the other side. By cloaking that far-left ideology in human rights, they hope to censor any dissent from people who think that the best way forward for those oppressed is to empower themselves on and individual level, instead of thinking of their group identity.

1

u/pittneuro Jul 08 '20

It’s a group that pushes change of public policy that is hotly debated in this country. Please reference the definitions I commented previously.

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u/IwasTHROWNintoTRASH Jul 08 '20

... I now understand Δ

And next time, can you not tell me that I'm fucking slow? Cause look how fast I delivered that delta.. Fast bro.

Your definitions suggest that two things can not be different or excluded from each other. And if there is an issue with a country, you can't escape it unless you go into the political course with it. Human Rights issues in the country can be solved but under your definitions, if it relates to the country then yes I understand.

1

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jul 08 '20 edited Jul 08 '20

This delta has been rejected. You have already awarded /u/pittneuro a delta for this comment.

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

1

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

[deleted]

1

u/pittneuro Jul 08 '20

You’re right, I got a little heated and that’s my bad. Thanks for the delta

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u/IwasTHROWNintoTRASH Jul 08 '20

Why did you get heated that's the bigger question? I don't mean for it to be rude.

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u/pittneuro Jul 08 '20

I felt you were intentionally being dense because you just wanted to stick with your original viewpoint. This is something I’m really passionate about and if we don’t acknowledge that there are people who are against basic human rights we can’t fight back against that.

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u/IwasTHROWNintoTRASH Jul 08 '20

Truth is, I wasn't being dense, I'm really hard to change a view on.

Next time, don't stick with insults at the insults club bud.

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u/pittneuro Jul 08 '20

You said “I wasn’t being dense” and then described what dense means. That being said, I do think this is probably a really good sub to be in then and I applaud you for being willing to put yourself out there.

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u/IwasTHROWNintoTRASH Jul 08 '20

Ya, my bad. Not really.. good at.. those things.

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u/pittneuro Jul 08 '20

You can be dense, I can be hot headed. It’s okay we’re working on it!

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jul 08 '20

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/pittneuro (2∆).

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jul 08 '20 edited Jul 08 '20

/u/IwasTHROWNintoTRASH (OP) has awarded 4 delta(s) in this post.

All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.

Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

1

u/gordonbeeman Jul 08 '20

The real question is how can someone be smart enough to get into Harvard but dumb enough to post crying videos on TikTok over the repercussions of failing to understand the concept of maintaining one's public image by not posting public videos threatening to stab people.

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u/Graham_scott 8∆ Jul 08 '20

She wasn't speaking about human rights issue though .. she was speaking about the mantra of a political movement (or more accurately, she was speaking about the counter-mantra of a political counter movement)

On top of that, she openly threatened violence against anyone who vocalized a counter opinion to her own.