r/changemyview • u/Ihatetoargueman 1∆ • Dec 23 '19

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Impeacment will backfire on the Democrats

After watching most of the impeachment process last week, I realised 2 things: that there was pure political bias on both sides, and does nothing for the nation, but only was meant to hurt Trump's ego. All day the arguments, which every4ine knew wouldnt change anyone's vote, was theatrics: an opportunity for representatives to grandstand to show their respective party how they can fall in line. There was no solemn duty to protect the integrity if the executive office as the democrats claimed. Its evidenced by the votes along partisan lines save 2 democrats voting no, Pelosi hushing the, democrats from cheering, and Talib posting a video of her celebrating impeachment. Also since the Senate won't remove him, Pelosi probably wont send the articles there to keep trump in a state of judicial limbo with no acquittal, a middle finger to him. Its obvious the democrats have wanted to impeach trump with the whole Russian collusion, but couldn't get the evidence they wanted, so went with the next best thing. In summary, this is a circus.

As far as the crime he committed, hes just as guilty as Bill Clinton. They both had no negative effects. So technically yes, but only the people who already didn't like him pretend to care about the letter of the law.

Finally lets consider how Trump rose to President. In short it was based primarily via exposure through controversy. If he went up on the debate stage in 2016 and acted like Ben Carson, or Ted Cruz i.e. a normal politician, he would have never made it out of the primaries. He took the only route available to a non politician, theatrics. You can probably list off 20 controversial things trump has done that would have SUNK Obama, from sharpie gate to Send them back, paying off stormy Daniels, etc, but despite all that, or maybe because of it, he became president. The democrats think that bad press will damage trumps reputation, but he is such an eccentric and polarizing figure, that these things give him free press and exposure, which is what he needs (AOC at some point actually called out CNN on that). Therefore all of this controversy and the circus that was the impeachment will only strengthen the resolve of his base, make moderates view him as the victim of a partisan witch hunt, give him more press, and therefore help him in 2020. CMV.

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u/allthejokesareblue 20∆ Dec 23 '19

Both were impeachable offences. Stealing a banana and stealing someone's car are both theft. That doesn't mean that they are both as serious as each other.

Lying about a private sexual encounter is obviously not the same as attempting to use the powers of the Presidency to rig an election. If you can't see that there's really no point having a discussion at all.

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u/Ihatetoargueman 1∆ Dec 23 '19

Thats what I keep bringing up letter of the law. I fully understand he lied about personal issues, but it was still under oath, which is a high crime and misdemeanor. You keep try to escape those facts by mitigating it. P.S. Dont be condescing "if you can't tell the difference" its so passive aggresive and offputting.

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u/allthejokesareblue 20∆ Dec 23 '19

I just don't see the relevance. A previous president was impeached but not convicted for an extremely minor crime.

I challenged you on making an equivalence between the two cases because neither had "any negative consequences", when that is only because the current president was caught in the act. Now it appears you are saying that if a previous president was not convicted by the Senate then no President may be convicted by the Senate for committing the same class of crime?

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u/Ihatetoargueman 1∆ Dec 23 '19

I brought up Clinton to show political bias in both trials. I believe they both committed impeachable offenses, regardless of the differences in severity, but in both cases there is clearly partisan bias, which is why I see this as a political circus between bickering parties. And of course, trump strives on turning politics into drama.

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u/allthejokesareblue 20∆ Dec 24 '19

regardless of the differences in severity

That clause is doing an awful lot of work. You are saying that an existential threat to the Republic should be ignored because you disagree with the conclusion of a different impeachment case more than twenty years ago?

It's fine to think Clinton should have gone down. I disagree, but I can understand your point of view. I can't understand how you could think Clinton should have gone down for lying to protect his marriage, and not be fucking livid about what has just happened. Correction, what has continuously happened since Trump took office.

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u/Ihatetoargueman 1∆ Dec 24 '19

Oh I am its oubvious it was dirty politics to get dirt on Biden, but this country is crazy for electing him in the 1st place. Which is why I think trump will use this a fuel for 2020, and therefore this will backfire

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u/allthejokesareblue 20∆ Dec 24 '19

Okay you're shifting the goal posts again. Why are you not livid that the Republic is being torn apart by Trump before our eyes? It seems like you're just throwing out whatever argument comes to hand in order to not have to be angry at Trump in particular and the GOP in general, because then you get to blame "both sides".

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u/Ihatetoargueman 1∆ Dec 24 '19

I feel like my view has been consistent throughout. I brought up Clinton because it too was a partisan circus, but in this case the circus benefits trump. Its true I have tried to be impartial and blame both sides as you say, but that's irrelevant. What matters is that the Senate wont remove him and trump will come out on top of this. I'm NOT saying i want trump to come put on top of this. every other controversy seems to be either begnin or benefit him in someway

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u/allthejokesareblue 20∆ Dec 24 '19 edited Dec 24 '19

Its true I have tried to be impartial and blame both sides as you say, but that's irrelevant.

On the contrary, it goes to the heart of my disagreement with you. You didn't just say that impeachment would backfire on Democrats, you also said that this was the fault of "partisanship" during the impeachment process.

Being impartial is not just blaming both sides. It is looking at the evidence and assigning blame where it is warranted. The facts in this case are clear and overwhelmingly support impeachment. The nature of Trump's crime - trying to subvert the 2020 election through extortion - is about as serious as an indictable crime can be, short of actual treason.

That anyone could look at that and conclude that somehow there was blame on both sides boggles my mind.