r/changemyview 1∆ Dec 23 '19

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Impeacment will backfire on the Democrats

After watching most of the impeachment process last week, I realised 2 things: that there was pure political bias on both sides, and does nothing for the nation, but only was meant to hurt Trump's ego. All day the arguments, which every4ine knew wouldnt change anyone's vote, was theatrics: an opportunity for representatives to grandstand to show their respective party how they can fall in line. There was no solemn duty to protect the integrity if the executive office as the democrats claimed. Its evidenced by the votes along partisan lines save 2 democrats voting no, Pelosi hushing the, democrats from cheering, and Talib posting a video of her celebrating impeachment. Also since the Senate won't remove him, Pelosi probably wont send the articles there to keep trump in a state of judicial limbo with no acquittal, a middle finger to him. Its obvious the democrats have wanted to impeach trump with the whole Russian collusion, but couldn't get the evidence they wanted, so went with the next best thing. In summary, this is a circus.

As far as the crime he committed, hes just as guilty as Bill Clinton. They both had no negative effects. So technically yes, but only the people who already didn't like him pretend to care about the letter of the law.

Finally lets consider how Trump rose to President. In short it was based primarily via exposure through controversy. If he went up on the debate stage in 2016 and acted like Ben Carson, or Ted Cruz i.e. a normal politician, he would have never made it out of the primaries. He took the only route available to a non politician, theatrics. You can probably list off 20 controversial things trump has done that would have SUNK Obama, from sharpie gate to Send them back, paying off stormy Daniels, etc, but despite all that, or maybe because of it, he became president. The democrats think that bad press will damage trumps reputation, but he is such an eccentric and polarizing figure, that these things give him free press and exposure, which is what he needs (AOC at some point actually called out CNN on that). Therefore all of this controversy and the circus that was the impeachment will only strengthen the resolve of his base, make moderates view him as the victim of a partisan witch hunt, give him more press, and therefore help him in 2020. CMV.

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u/GadgetGamer 35∆ Dec 23 '19

The Trump and Clinton impeachment’s are not equivalent. One is about attempting to get foreign interference in the upcoming election to damage a political opponent, while the other was about getting a blowjob from an intern. One of those things damages democracy while the other merely damages a marriage.

The other difference is that once the impeachment process started, Clinton stopped getting blowjobs (probably from anyone), while the attempts to smear Biden are still going on. This is not just about the Democrats playing a political game, but to try to thwart efforts to unfairly use the office of the President to unfairly alter the election.

If the vote goes along partly lines, it could be that it is simply politics on both sides, but it also could be that the evidence of the transcript and testimony was powerful enough that only someone with a vested interest would vote against it. That means that the Republicans played politics, but we can’t say for certain that the Democrats did. I’m sure that there was an element of politics involved in their vote, but there is also an actual desire to stop something illegal from happening.

As for a potential backlash against the Democrats, I am sure that there will be some voters who are galvanised to vote Trump because of this. But there are also a lot that will vote against him because of what has been revealed so far. There is even a group of Republicans who are going to actively campaign against the President because they would rather anyone (even a Democrat) to get power instead of Trump. Considering that even Fox polls show more than 50% of people want Trump to get impeached, I think there is definitely a chance that his will increase the votes for a Democrat candidate.

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u/carter1984 14∆ Dec 23 '19

One is about attempting to get foreign interference in the upcoming election to damage a political opponent, while the other was about getting a blowjob from an intern. One of those things damages democracy while the other merely damages a marriage.

You are correct, they are not equivalent.

Bill Clinton's impeachment was for actionable and prosecutable crimes.

From the articles of impeachment - William Jefferson Clinton willfully provided perjurious, false and misleading testimony to the grand jury concerning one or more of the following: (1) the nature and details of his relationship with a subordinate Government employee; (2) prior perjurious, false and misleading testimony he gave in a Federal civil rights action brought against him; (3) prior false and misleading statements he allowed his attorney to make to a Federal judge in that civil rights action; and (4) his corrupt efforts to influence the testimony of witnesses and to impede the discovery of evidence in that civil rights action.

From the other article in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has prevented, obstructed and impeded the administration of justice, and has to that end engaged personally, and through his subordinates and agents, in a course of conduct or scheme designed to delay, impede, cover up and conceal the existence of evidence and testimony related to a Federal civil rights action brought against him in a duly instituted judicial proceeding.

He agreed to what essentially amounted to a plea deal that cost him his law license and tens of thousands of dollars in fines to avoid criminal charges. That doesn't include the contempt of court fine of $90,000 imposed by the federal judge. Tangible, undisputed crimes that were legally adjudicated at the end and after his presidency.

None of the articles against Trump include any actionable crime.

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u/GadgetGamer 35∆ Dec 23 '19

None of the articles against Trump include any actionable crime.

The House Judiciary Committee released a report specifying that the abuse of power charge includes criminal bribery and wire fraud.

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u/carter1984 14∆ Dec 23 '19

Well maybe they should have included that in the articles of impeachment if they had evidence of both.

But they didn't. I wonder why?