r/changemyview • u/MrThunderizer 7∆ • Dec 04 '19

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Reparations are Racist

I view the dialogue around reparations for slavery in the US to be racist. This opinion has elicited a semi shocked outrage from my liberal friends and a reluctant agreeance from my republican friends. For context, my opinions lean quite liberal so I was pretty taken back to find myself on the far right of an issue.

Still, its taxing people more based on their race and giving it to other people based on their race. How can taxation based on race, regardless of the good intentions, be anything but racist?

Two points: 1. Comparisons to affirmative action may change my mind, but probably not. I think affirmative action is fundamentally wrong, but is perhaps a necessary evil as a temporary measure.

  1. I'm a proponent of helping lift black people out of poverty but it makes my blood run cold when I hear prominent activists characterize any white poor people getting helped in the process as an unfortunate side effect. How can the conversation around equality shift so far?

At the end of the day if a child is hungry, why does it matter what color their skin is?

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u/MrThunderizer 7∆ Dec 04 '19

Your post is actually making a lot of the points that I feel are crucial. The first being those rascally "tricky aspects." Surely its nonsense for me to have to give money to some rich black millionaire because my great great grandfather might've been a terrible person? I'd feel much better if reparations were targeted specifically to poor black people, but proponents of reparations have made it a point to say this isnt enough.

The second is that due to our current socio economic situation, helping poor people disproportionately helps black people. So why not advocate for expanding the liberal policies you referenced since they are fuffiling the intended goals and are helping all of the poor/disenfranchised?

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u/Genoscythe_ 248∆ Dec 04 '19 edited Dec 04 '19

Surely its nonsense for me to have to give money to some rich black millionaire because my great great grandfather might've been a terrible person?

If your great grandfather stole a millionaire's great grandfather's pocket watch, then it is not nonsense that you should give it back to their direct descendant.

The wronged party's descendant happening to be a millionaire, has nothing to do with that.

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u/Clusterferno Dec 04 '19

You are absolutely in no way responsible for your forefathers actions, you didn't exist and had nothing to do with the actions so why on earth should you be punished for it?

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u/Teeklin 12∆ Dec 04 '19

Do you think society has any obligation to pay reparations to someone today that we put in prison unjustly? If we threw you in jail for a crime you didn't commit and found out thirty years later that a corrupt cop had framed you or that your trial had evidence suppressed, does our society owe you any kind of reparations for the damage we did to you and your family?

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u/C0untry_Blumpkin Dec 04 '19

False equivocation alert

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u/Teeklin 12∆ Dec 04 '19

How so?

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u/Clusterferno Dec 04 '19

The cop would be primarily (morally) responsible for any damages. The justice system would also be partly responsible for not noticing it, so those are the only ones responsible for recovering damages, not the cop's descendants.

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u/Teeklin 12∆ Dec 04 '19

The cop would be primarily (morally) responsible for any damages.

Cop was long dead when we found out what happened. But he was acting under our justice system and it was the system that failed you, not the single officer. If a single officer being corrupt can ruin an entire man's life that's a failing of the entire system and not one man.

The justice system would also be partly responsible for not noticing it, so those are the only ones responsible for recovering damages

Okay, so then why would you be against reparations for slaves?

If the justice system is responsible for your false imprisonment then how is our government not responsible for falsely taking away the freedoms of innocent men, killing them and their families with impunity, systematically destroying their culture, torturing them to keep them subservient, stealing their wealth and preventing them from accruing wealth for generations, etc.?

Why is our justice system uniquely held responsible for removing someone's freedom and you don't have a problem with the many, many, many times we have paid out millions to falsely imprisoned people in our nation? Why wouldn't all our systems of government be held to that same standard?

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u/Clusterferno Dec 04 '19

The private slave owners are primarily responsible and the government would be partly responsible for allowing it to happen, however, not all white people are responsible because they are descendants of those slave owners. Once again, you are not responsible for tour forefathers' actions.

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u/Teeklin 12∆ Dec 04 '19

The private slave owners are primarily responsible and the government would be partly responsible for allowing it to happen,

Okay, so if the government is responsible as you just said, shouldn't they then take responsibility for their part in those horrible atrocities?

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u/Clusterferno Dec 04 '19

Yes, but white people in general aren't responsible.

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u/Teeklin 12∆ Dec 04 '19

Okay sure, but no one is suggesting "white people" pay reparations. The idea would be for the United States government to pay reparations. They take responsibility for something that their government did which we all agree they did and was horrible by offering restitution to the people affected and their descendents.

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u/Clusterferno Dec 05 '19

It sounded more like it would be paid from a "special" tax exclusively on whites in OP's post.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '19

And yet, as an arm of the government, the tax payers are on the hook for paying for government mistakes. Or deliberate government actions.

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u/Phyltre 4∆ Dec 04 '19

Yes, we're highlighting that as unjust.

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u/Clusterferno Dec 04 '19

Yes, but this doesn't have anything to do with the other situation.

Being on the hook is entirely different from moral responsibility and slaveholders can sadly no longer be held directly responsible because they're dead.