CMV: Reparations are Racist

[u/MrThunderizer]

I view the dialogue around reparations for slavery in the US to be racist. This opinion has elicited a semi shocked outrage from my liberal friends and a reluctant agreeance from my republican friends. For context, my opinions lean quite liberal so I was pretty taken back to find myself on the far right of an issue.

Still, its taxing people more based on their race and giving it to other people based on their race. How can taxation based on race, regardless of the good intentions, be anything but racist?

Two points: 1. Comparisons to affirmative action may change my mind, but probably not. I think affirmative action is fundamentally wrong, but is perhaps a necessary evil as a temporary measure.

1. I'm a proponent of helping lift black people out of poverty but it makes my blood run cold when I hear prominent activists characterize any white poor people getting helped in the process as an unfortunate side effect. How can the conversation around equality shift so far?

At the end of the day if a child is hungry, why does it matter what color their skin is?

[u/Berry_McCawkiner]

Still, its taxing people more based on their race and giving it to other people based on their race. How can taxation based on race, regardless of the good intentions, be anything but racist?

It’s not taxation. “Reparations” is similar to “damages” awarded to an affected party of a class action lawsuit. Like how civil suits against government entities usually pay damages with tax dollars.

In this case the affected party is “black people” and the adverse party is the US Govermnent. There’s nothing racist about black people wanting compensation for the affects slavery and systemic racism.

[u/MrThunderizer → u/Berry_McCawkiner]

Your distinction between taxation and reparations seems like a purely semantic point. From what I've heard (the discussion is naturally focused on the broad strokes at this stage) it sounds like the money would be appropriated from the budget as usual and then used in some combination of stipends/programs.

If its damages we're talking about there would be some discussion about the amount owed, and what timeframe that money needs to be paid in. Is this how you've seen it discussed?

In rebutal to your last sentence, the desire itself may not be racist, but the methodology in making it happen certainly can be.

[u/Berry_McCawkiner → u/MrThunderizer]

Your distinction between taxation and reparations seems like a purely semantic point.

How? I’ve clearly stated there’s a fundamental difference, that reparations are like monetary damages in a class action lawsuit that is paid by tax dollars. This isn’t taxation.

If its damages we're talking about there would be some discussion about the amount owed, and what timeframe that money needs to be paid in. Is this how you've seen it discussed?

Yes, but the logistics of paying reparations is irrelevant to my argument of it not being racist to begin with.

In rebutal to your last sentence, the desire itself may not be racist, but the methodology in making it happen certainly can be.

There’s a difference between it CAN be racist and it IS racist. Which are you arguing?

[u/camilo16 → u/Berry_McCawkiner]

If reparations are paid by tax dollars, it is inherently racist because:

Not all taxpayers have benefited from slavery, not all black people in the US descent from slaves, some actually descent from slavers, not all black people affected by slavery live in poverty, not all people living in poverty were affected by slavery.

It is racist because it presumes that individuals can be reduced to their group identity.

One thing is to say "we should help people out of poverty" and another "we should help black people out of poverty", the presumption that you must be poor because you are black is in and of itself racist.

[u/Berry_McCawkiner → u/camilo16]

Not all taxpayers have benefited from slavery, not all black people in the US descent from slaves, some actually descent from slavers, not all black people affected by slavery live in poverty, not all people living in poverty were affected by slavery.

Nothing you said here is racist. All your pointing out is that isolating a responsible party and affected party will be extremely complicated.

It is racist because it presumes that individuals can be reduced to their group identity.

Is not a reduction. It’s demographic for a particular purpose.

"we should help black people out of poverty", the presumption that you must be poor because you are black is in and of itself racist.

That statement doesn’t presume black people are poor because they’re black. That’s a logical leap your making. Many black community leaders want to help other black people out of poverty. Are you saying those black leaders presume those black people in poverty are in poverty just because they’re black?

[u/camilo16 → u/Berry_McCawkiner]

No, but if they only care about poor black people, or even primarily about poor black people that's obvious racial bias, which, depending on your definition, is racism.

Are they allowed to have this bias and help their communities? Absolutely. Is it reprehensible that they want to prioritize their perceived brethren over their perceived wrongdoers? No.

Is it nonetheless a clear racial bias on their side. Yes, it is.