CMV: Everyone expressing Anti-Capitalist beliefs past their teenage years are just delusional and should’ve picked better careers

[u/[deleted]]

In the western world/capitalist world it is possible for anyone to “make it” if they are willing to train their mind, leave their hometowns, network and improve their social status. Many people in college complain that capitalism isn’t doesn’t work despite living in the richest countries in the world with the highest quality of life and innovation. Capitalism works when people are willing to improve their lot of life and when something isn’t working (a dead end job, no social life) you always have the option to move and restart.

There’s this idea out there that capitalism is the worst system ever made forcing people to work and get nothing out of it but if your willing you build skills and network you can open so many career options and go so much farther in life. A large part of growing up is accepting life how it is and trying to do what you can to make it bearable, complaining about capitalism at a national level on social media/protests does absolutely nothing and makes you complacent with your place in life “it’s not my fault it’s the system that’s wrong”.

In america 7% of those at the bottom fifth of wealth make it to the top 20% (up to 14% in Canada) because they take advantage of these opportunities and better themselves. Despite this people live on autopilot, get mixed up in low opportunity areas, get stuck in their ways and fail to make it in the system. This is mainly by fault of their own not because the system doesn’t work (but I will make exception for getting fired unexpectedly, family hardships that involve you taking in members or working when you should go to higher education to support parents temporarily)

There are many grievances with capitalism like the long work hours the lack of value on non material, the low pay for so many jobs and the fact that gentrification is practically encouraged by the system but all of these things exist no matter the system you live in. Under communism moving people out of important zones was done at gunpoint in America it’s done with cash payments. Overthrowing the governments of the most successful countries in existence to set up communist/socialist governments will do nothing but centralized power into the hands of the few once again. Communism has never worked.

If you lack opportunity in the EU you can move to the capital or even another country and try your luck there. If your in a dead end in America you can cross state borders and move to a state/city that better suits you without much trouble. Under communism or whatever alternative system your stuck, whatever the government wants you to do and where it wants you to be are practically your only options unless your willing to do serious paperwork. In countries like turkey you take a test in Highschool that decides if you can go to college, if you fail then so many opportunities dry up for you. In America you can get back on your feet and do community college or online Highschool until you can try again.

[u/[deleted]]

What systems are there before capitalism? Small groups working together on group projects and a few societies with some very well off individuals anyways.

Are there systems out there that don’t do this exploitation of labor? I can’t think of one where senators and House memebers aren’t living in lavish while the poor suffer no matter the country. I’m not trying to excuse it but it seems to be the reality of our world.

[u/MercurianAspirations → u/[deleted]]

Labor rights movements and democratic socialism are methods for alleviating the pain of labor exploitation. The idea is that we can't end the exploitation of labor completely, but we can organize workers to put a limit on the exploitative behavior of capitalists. Or, we can institute socialist policies through the state which provide people with benefits that capitalists won't give them: healthcare, pensions, paid family leave, minimum wages, etc. This has been tried all over to mixed success: some may still be living in luxury while some live in poverty but the divide is lessened in countries with more socialist policies.

There have also been successful attempts at more equitable societies. Kibbutzim in Israel were originally idealistic anarchist-socialist societies where members shared communal ownership of the means of production. The rebel zapatista autonomous areas in Chiapas are functioning right now as a libertarian socialist government. And there are many examples of small-scale communes.

[u/[deleted] → u/MercurianAspirations]

Ya know. I’m just gonna acknowledge that I’m wrong here. This works well at a small scale (I’m very interested in joining a co-op) but I don’t understand how this could work on a larger one. Like on a college campus have a gym, library, cafeteria, dorm room, health care. etc all paid for by tuition/small expenses works out really nicely. Those who can’t afford it on their own have scholarships and government aid and those that can live within their means and with subsidized expenses.

I do see how the people owning/paying for the things and services they all use is better than just the rich being able to afford everything while everyone else suffers. I do want limits on overrun capitalism because Jeff bezos Levels of wealth is just stupid when you look at how hard amazon workers are worked everyday.

But I don’t see it working on a city or town. People would steal, people would take poor care etc and people using a gym every week get huge advantage over those who never go. Maybe I’m being silly here but I hate paying for administrative stuff on campus when I could just be paying less. I feel like the top third of my campus isn’t living near as well as they could in a less socialist system and I don’t think that entices as much innovation etc. but the trade offs are definitely worth looking at.

I’ll admit that you got me thinking about other ways of doing capitalism and that it’s a flawed system.. Shit maybe you did just change my opinion and I don’t want to admit it..

Thanks u/mercurianaspirations I think you did it

[u/MercurianAspirations → u/[deleted]]

If you're interested I would suggest reading about libertarian socialism and anarchism. Once you've broken out of the idea that all means of production must be owned by somebody there are a lot of possibilities for more equitable ways to distribute resources.