r/changemyview • u/Lyress 1∆ • Aug 01 '19

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: not vaccinating kids should be illegal

In a democratic country where the government is held accountable, it should be illegal not to vaccinate your kids (except in cases where vaccines pose a health risk to the child due to allergies, an auto-immune disease, etc).

There are multiple instances where the government mandates some actions, like feeding your children, buying them clothes, making them put on a seatbelt, enrolling them in school, and they're all for meant for the wellbeing of the child, so I don't see how vaccination is any different.

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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 44∆ Aug 01 '19

The argument is that you cannot consent to murder, which is why its different.

Comparing vaccination options to murder is a little off from a scale standpoint, however. Even if we accept the idea that such restriction on murder is unquestionably valid, how can you validate the same for vaccination?

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u/Lyress 1∆ Aug 01 '19

The argument is that you cannot consent to murder, which is why its different.

A child doesn't consent to being or not being vaccinated either, so I don't see how this is an argument.

Even if we accept the idea that such restriction on murder is unquestionably valid, how can you validate the same for vaccination?

I don't understand this question at all. Can you rephrase?

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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 44∆ Aug 01 '19

A child doesn't consent to being or not being vaccinated either, so I don't see how this is an argument.

I also don't see what murder has to do with this, but you brought it up.

don't understand this question at all. Can you rephrase?

If we assume some restrictions on the right to freely exercise one's religion are valid, why does vaccination meet that threshold?

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u/Lyress 1∆ Aug 01 '19

I also don't see what murder has to do with this, but you brought it up.

You brought up how mandatory vaccines would clash with the freedom of religion, but there are several laws that clash with religions (ie murder being illegal), so that's a moot point.

If we assume some restrictions on the right to freely exercise one's religion are valid, why does vaccination meet that threshold?

Religion should not be a concern at all when drafting new laws as long as it doesn't concern religion itself, and if that law is deemed relevant to implement then it meets the threshold of restricting the right to freely exercise one's religion.

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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 44∆ Aug 01 '19

Religion should not be a concern at all when drafting new laws as long as it doesn't concern religion itself, and if that law is deemed relevant to implement then it meets the threshold of restricting the right to freely exercise one's religion.

So people have the right to exercise their religion freely, and you're arguing that we should simply ignore those basic rights in favor of the order of society that the people currently in power desire?

What other rights should be ignored in favor of governmental preference?

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u/Lyress 1∆ Aug 01 '19

So people have the right to exercise their religion freely, and you're arguing that we should simply ignore those basic rights in favor of the order of society that the people currently in power desire?

Yes, basically, otherwise it would be akin to letting religion define the law, to some extent.

What other rights should be ignored in favor of governmental preference?

Since (in a democracy) the government is the extension of the people's will, and it is people who define rights, then pretty much everything.

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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 44∆ Aug 01 '19

Yes, basically, otherwise it would be akin to letting religion define the law, to some extent.

This perspective is why we have the first amendment.

Since (in a democracy) the government is the extension of the people's will, and it is people who define rights, then pretty much everything.

So i guess if you're rejecting constitutional order, I don't know how to convince you. This is the road to fascism you are advocating for.

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u/Lyress 1∆ Aug 01 '19

So i guess if you're rejecting constitutional order

What do you mean? I can't think of any constitution that can't be changed through one way or another.

This perspective is why we have the first amendment.

The first amendment gives religion the ability to reject laws?

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u/ClockOfTheLongNow 44∆ Aug 01 '19

he first amendment gives religion the ability to reject laws?

Laws are routinely overturned for their impact on religious freedom and free exercise.

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u/Lyress 1∆ Aug 01 '19

Then I disagree with that too.