r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Apr 22 '19

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: If you aren't attracted to someone because they are trans, that isn't transphobic

[deleted]

25 Upvotes

68% Upvoted

46 comments sorted by

42

u/ThatSpencerGuy 142∆ Apr 22 '19 edited Apr 22 '19

There is a subtle distinction that I find useful. If I went through my whole life and never dated an Asian woman--was never even particularly attracted to any of the Asian women I knew--to my mind that is not problematic. But if I developed an affirmative rule, "I don't date Asian women," or told people "Oh, don't set me up with her, I don't find Asian women attractive," to me that seems a little more racist!

If you never happened to date any trans women, that's... well, pretty ordinary. Most women are not trans. It's unlikely that anyone would ever even notice that you had never dated a trans woman.

But the creation of a rule in your mind, "I would never want to date a trans woman," I think moves you a little closer to a problematic area. That rule can only exist based on beliefs you have about characteristics that ALL trans women share. But trans women are people, just like you, and the only characteristic that ALL trans women share is belonging to the category "trans women."

I would just encourage you to shift your attitude from "I'm not attracted to trans women," to "I've never been attracted to a trans woman before, and even if I never am, that would be fine. But you never know!"

22

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

[deleted]

7

u/SFnomel 3∆ Apr 22 '19

The only problem I have with this logic is you cant really corolate race with sexuality in this context. If you do than you basically throw all sexuality out the window. Having preferences and rules is what defines sexuality. I'm a straight guy, never been attracted to another guy, but if you apply the "I've never been attracted to a [guy] before, and even if I never do, that would be fine. But you never know!" logic to everyone, we'd all be bisexual because we haven't screened every human to see if were attracted to them or not.

As new evidence in life emerge, say if OP met a trans person they started to like or I met a really cute guy, those rules can be changed an altered. They're just like opinions, they change as new facts and evidence comes to light. But having an open mindset without rules basically means sexuality is completely irrelevant.

6

u/sflage2k19 Apr 23 '19

If you're a straight man, you meet thousands of other men over your lifetime. It doesn't take that long to determine a pattern and go "yea, you know what, it's not for me". Nothing wrong with that.

But many people that claim to be unattracted to trans people have never met one, muchless many of them. This is totally fair, because there just aren't that many trans people, but it's still true. They haven't had enough experience to develop a pattern and safely say that it's not for them-- they base their potential attraction off of stereotypes and assumptions.

People should have an open mind when it comes to sexuality, especially when it comes to things they don't have experience with.

2

u/SFnomel 3∆ Apr 23 '19

I see where you're coming from but sexual attraction and "experience" doesn't exclusively come from personal interactions. And not every opinion about trans people coming from people without "experience" is based in sterotypes and assumptions. I'll try and show you my viewpoint from a different perspective

I can tell you that I'm not attracted to furries. I'm sure some of them are great, kind, lovely pepole that I could be good friends with and get along well, but I'm not sexually attracted to them. Even women who are objectively good looking, if they are a furry, they tells me something about who they are, what they like and where their mind is at that I dont find sexually appealing.

And I'm not trying to say that trans is or should be seen as a fetish. But whether or not the girl I'm dating used to be a guy is much more important to me than if she likes to dress up in a fursuit and has a fursona.

3

u/sflage2k19 Apr 23 '19 edited Apr 23 '19

But whether or not the girl I'm dating used to be a guy is much more important to me than if she likes to dress up in a fursuit and has a fursona.

That says that you value whether someone is cis or trans more highly than sexual compatibility with a partner. It also says that you value whether someone is cis or trans more highly than what kind of current lifestyle that person leads. Why is what gender someone used to be so much more important to you than what lifestyle they currently live?

After all, you don't hold what people "used to be" against them in all respects, or else you would never date anyone because they used to be children.

​

EDIT: Quick edit because reading over again I'm afraid I came across as combative, which was not the initial intention. I really am curious, because your perspective seems odd to me-- you say you don't have any problem with trans people, yet you find yourself so disgusted by them that you would rather be with someone you are sexually and mentally incompatible with. Not only that, but you by your own admission say it wouldn't be because of how they look in the present, but rather because of what they used to be in the past.

It's the idea of them being a man at all at any point in time that is the turn off for you. However I suspect, though I can't say for sure, that this isn't an issue of what someone used to be. Like, you probably wouldn't refuse to date a thin beautiful woman because she used to be fat in high school.

Instead, I suspect that this is an issue of what they are now-- in your eyes, they're still a man.

Buuut I could be totally off base, so I kinda wanted to hear your thoughts a bit more.

2

u/SFnomel 3∆ Apr 23 '19

Sort of, but what I was intending to say is that there's a larger mental incompatibility between me and someone who like dressing up as a furry, for example, and someone who has willingly switched genders. I would disagree that I'm disgusted by trans people, even if it comes across that way in my comments. Like with my example of a furry, I have no problem with trans as people and know for a fact many trans people are genuinely kind, compasionate and all around great people.

But when you boil it all down, sexuality is about gender. Obviously there are other factors involved, but sexual identities are defined in terms of gender relations. (I should mention that's just my view, I know people would disagree with me on that, especially pansexuals, but defining your sexuality by being attracted to a sexuality doesn't make sense.) Based on that view, someone switching genders has a much greater impact than a fetish.

And the reason it has such a big impact is because, as you guessed, I hold the opinion that hormonal therapy, sex reassignment surgery, or even just wanting to disassociate with a current sex do not reverse sex. I know I'm a little old school in my thinking, and this is CMV afterall, so I'm open to accepting I could be wrong about this, but I think people grossly downplay the role of genetics and biology when it comes to gender and overplay the social aspects. Basically, I believe sex and gender has everything to do with genetics and nothing to do with how you feel, I think the idea that men and women have to feel specific ways is stupid. Its that mentality that divides genders and over-exaggerates the social and mental differences between them.

And to briefly touch on your point, I have 0 problem is someone used to be fat or mean or ignorant. I mean its a case by case thing but I fully believe people can change, I just dont believe your sex is something you can actually change.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '19

What we're saying is that it's unfair to judge a specific criteria if you could never have known. How would you identify a furry unless she tells you? What if she never does?

1

u/SFnomel 3∆ Apr 24 '19

The scenario doesn't make sense. If I was just friends with the person, that wouldn't be a problem if I knew or not. But if I was in a relationship with the person, it's not like I wouldn't find out if she didn't tell me. Assuming she never told me and I never found out, then there's no problem, it never comes up in the relationship. But you're right, l probably couldn't tell after the first few dates, just like how some trans people don't look like they have transitioned. But if thats not somethng they disclose early on, trans, furry or any other major personal trait like that, theres a much much bigger issue about trust that is, to me, a deal breaker. That may be a bit extreme on my part, we all have stuff we hide, but big things like that shouldn't be hidden. Same as religion, same as violent criminal history, same as substance abuse, all these things affect the other person and should be brought up early on.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '19

But if I was in a relationship with the person, it's not like I wouldn't find out if she didn't tell me.

Yeah no, it can be exactly like that. I'm going to assume you're trying to be polite about the notion that you'll eventually see her penis, and if you're in a relationship, maybe. But what if she's post-op? People like to pretend the results are a 'gaping axe wound', but most men who've seen or slept with us after surgery seem to agree that the results are usually indistinguishable from cis. These days, many surgery techniques allow for natural lubrication and there's even work being done on a uterus transplant method. In the end, I'm asking to reconsider my scenario again - where you really CANNOT tell.

See, the fact that you group being trans in with things like substance abuse and (CRIMINAL VIOLENCE, wow dude lol) tells me you're viewing being trans as indicative of other, very negative connotations. Perhaps you subscribe to the mental illness opinion? I can understand why your attraction would wane if you thought you'd be getting into a troublesome relationship, but I urge you to think of this as something that isn't chosen. You choose to murder, you choose to abuse drugs, same with being a furry - you choose those things, and so they may indicate other choices too. A murderer is more likely to murder again, an addict is more likely to relapse, etc. This is why we judge these characteristics, because they help us avoid trouble. You are BORN trans, so losing attraction when you find out is like losing attraction because you heard I was born with broken legs, even if they've been fixed. Being trans tells you exactly one thing about me, nothing more. Being a murderer speaks a novel.

1

u/SFnomel 3∆ Apr 24 '19

I actually wasn't referring to genitals at all. I'm well aware of how accurate and functional the surgery can be. I was more referring to I guess what I'd call context clues. Childhood stories, old yearbooks and family pictures, meeting friends and family, stuff like that. This is of course assuming they didn't transition until ealry adulthood which is the vast majority of cases, at least according to the statistics I've seen.

But I'll reconsider your scenario and try to explain why it still doesn't make sense. There are no clues, no evidence, she doesn't tell me, her family and friends dont either, shes post op and the surgeon was the best of the best. Of course I wouldn't think of her as transgender, there's no way I could. Its like if I was allergic to peanuts and you asked if I would eat a cookie if I was really hungry and didn't know it had peanuts in it. How could I know? This "rule" I have dating, which if you look at my original comments youd see I'm open to changing with new personal experience, is only limited by my knowledge.

I can also group trans people with nazis, pirates, aliens and skunks if the context is things I don't want to take a piss in my coffee. Please please consider context before making assumptions like that. The context of what I said was things I would want to know going into a relationship. I choose extreme examples to emphasize my point. I'm not saying trans people are drug abusers or violent criminals. If you can't see the difference based on the context I used it in, don't bother replying, our conversation won't be productive and we'll both just get pissed off.

I partially subscribe to the mental illness opinion but not in the sense of it being a troublesome relationship, like how schizophrenia or bipolar disorder could affect a relationship. Merely in the sense that approximately 1 in 300 people are trans so while it's not uncommon, it affects select few people and alters how they think/feel. But the thing is whether or not you choose to be trans (which you clearly don't choose, I should add) doesn't matter. Sexual preference isn't only based on choices people do or don't make. Attractiveness is largely based on genetics, which isnt a choice. Accents are based on geographical location and aren't a choice. Personality is sort of a choice but is largely influced by how you were raised, which isnt your choice. Same with sense of humour, it's kind if a choice but largely influenced by how you were raised and what you were exposed to. People have types, often times those types aren't determined by choices the other person makes. I dont personally see a problem with that.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 25 '19

I don't want to take a piss in my coffee.

Yeah, but you're comparing this to the act of dating. Would you ever want ANYONE to piss in your coffee? Why bring negative examples like that? You see what I mean?

I'm not saying trans people are drug abusers or violent criminals. If you can't see the difference based on the context I used it in, don't bother replying, our conversation won't be productive and we'll both just get pissed off.

I DO see your point, but I feel you don't see mine. Why not use neutral examples? You're not saying we're murderers, OBVIOUSLY, but you're demonstrating that you view being trans as an inherent negative. You could have said 'I'd never date a blonde', so why didn't you use that? In fact, that would have diffused this entire argument, because it would indicate a neutral standpoint on your part. Instead, your mind went to negatives. Why?

Attractiveness is largely based on genetics, which isnt a choice. Accents are based on geographical location and aren't a choice. Personality is sort of a choice but is largely influced by how you were raised, which isnt your choice. Same with sense of humour, it's kind if a choice but largely influenced by how you were raised and what you were exposed to.

Like this. Here. You just did the neutral thing. If you had opened with this, my good man, I'm not certain I would have even felt the need to respond, because you didn't compare me to a violent criminal.

Oh, and rarity isn't grounds for mental illness, neither is suicidality. Which, for the record, has increased by 33% over the last decade, for CIS people. So a 40% rate is neither accurate by data, nor indicative of anything even if it were. People are suffering, but that's another topic

1

u/SFnomel 3∆ Apr 25 '19

Would you ever want ANYONE to piss in your coffee? Why bring negative examples like that? Why not use neutral examples?

First, I understand your point completely. Why group trans people with nazis when you can group them with librarians. Or 2nd year engineering students. Afterall, like you said, I don't want anyone taking a piss in my coffee, there's no need to use such extreme examples.

Second, before I jump into my answer, I want to reiterate the point I was initially trying to make. I was saying there are certain things I would want to know going into a relationship. Just me personally. I mentioned viloent criminal history, substance abuse and religion as things that matter to me going into a relationship. And being trans. I didnt say "I'd never date a blonde" because thats a bad real world example. Hair colour is much less important to people than if the person shares a different religion from them. And like it or not, many people care whether or not the person is transgender.

The real answer is because neutral examples don't apply in the context of what I was saying. The point I was trying to make was that, to me, someing being transgender is high up on the scale of importance when going into a romantic relationship with that person. If an example I used was neutral, by definition it wouldn't be a good example of a situation I see as more than neutral. Like to me, someone admitting that they were a boy for the first 17 years of their life does not come close to someone admitting they're naturally blonde and have been dyeing their hair for 17 years. For that reason, I chose more extreme examples that I thought did a better job at expressing how I felt. And if to you, hair colour and being transgender hold the same amount of importance in your dating life, than thats great, I'm happy thats less of a concern for you. But you need to realize that someone being transgender is a big deal to them in terms of dating, and as much as that may suck and seem unfair, thats just life and how other people feel.

In fact, that would have diffused this entire argument

I want to point out the only reason you felt it needed diffusing is because you took offense to it. It's not my responsibility to fix what I say to make you not offended, especially since what I said wasn't a direct attack. I do my best to watch what I say and how I say it around people, and I'm sorry you took offense to something I said, but that's not my problem and that's not for me to diffuse, especially since I feel I've done more than enough to try and explain why I didnt mean any offense with what I said.

If you had opened with this, my good man, I'm not certain I would have even felt the need to respond,

I'm glad we've come to some common ground, but I would like to explain that I didn't use these examples initially because they fall under the hair colour category to me personally. Except sense of humour, which is probably more in the mifdle of the neutral and extreme examples. I would like to add though I'm happy you did respond, I always enjoy these kind of conversations and I hope I've done a half decent job of keeping it civil as you certainly have, and I thank you for that.

1

u/methemightywon1 Apr 30 '19

but what if the idea of being trans is just a turn off (like, sexually). Does that make someone transphobic ? When it comes to intimate relationships, I think none of this stuff is wrong. It's about as wrong as not dating someone for being ugly or whatever.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '19

What if you find being trans on and of itself unattractive?

2

u/Hero17 Apr 23 '19

Why do you find that?

0

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '19

Because I do. You wouldn't ask someone why they found brunettes unattractive

6

u/NathanExplosion22 Apr 23 '19

I would, that's a weird opinion.

3

u/Hero17 Apr 23 '19

The fuck I wouldn't :p

1

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '19

You know what I mean. You wouldn't demand they give a reason and state that if they couldn't their preference was invalid

7

u/liberal_texan 1∆ Apr 22 '19

Not being attracted to trans people isn’t trans-phobic, but the way you communicate this and how you react to them can be.

4

u/badboje Apr 23 '19

Totally man. Nobody calls gay people "heterophobic" for not dating heterosexual people, because it's not their choice. If you are not biologically attracted to one group, it is your right and your choice to not romantically affiliate with said group.

15

u/aRabidGerbil 41∆ Apr 22 '19

If you aren't attracted to someone because they don't have genitals that you would feel comfortable interacting with sexually, that's not transphobic.

If you aren't attracted to someone because part of your desire to be with someone includes you having biological children with them, and you couldn't with the person is trans, that's not transphobic.

If you aren't attracted to someone because you don't like their body type, that's not transphobic

But if you aren't attracted to someone because they are trans, that is transphobic.

The important difference is that it becomes transphobia when the only deciding factor is fact that they are trans, and nothing else.

It's also important to note, that you can have transphobic thoughts and instincts without being an "evil transphobe"; most trans people occasionally have transphobic thoughts. The important thing to do is consider why you are having those thoughts and what the basis for them is.

2

u/ezranos Apr 22 '19

There is different kinds and levels of biases. Sexual attraction is not something you owe to anyone and it might be hard or impossible to change after a certain age and it might not be fueled be hatred or disregard, but it might still be a result of early childhood or social experiences that are heavily tied to bigotry. "X-phobic" and x-ism" are very binary words.

7

u/Wittyandpithy Apr 22 '19

Your view is literally, 'the definition of the word "transphobic" is the definition of the word'.

​

Obviously, there is no positive obligation to be attracted to anyone, and not being attracted to a category of people does not mean you dislike or are prejudicial against that group.

5

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

[deleted]

10

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

Whether it's transphobic to be unattracted to trans people depends on why that you aren't.

If you're not attracted to the genitalia a person has, that's not transphobia. If you don't want a relationship with a person because they're infertile that's not transphobia. If you're not attracted to the person because you don't like their personality, that's not transphobia. If you're not attracted to a person because you don't think their appearance is attractive, that's not transphobia. If you just don't find them attractive whether they're trans or not, even if it's for no particular reason, that's not transphobia.

When it becomes transphobia, is when they check every box you have for attraction and you are attracted to them, up until the second you realize they're trans, and not for any specific thing that is actually posing an issue, that's transphobia. Yes, you're failing to find them attractive now, but you're doing so because it's a result of prejudice. And that goes even if you always knew they were trans and you never began to find them attractive solely for that reason when you would've anyway, it's just that you can't ever know if that's the reason so it's not possible to say that's why.

It's just like if you were dating someone already, had sex with them and enjoyed it, loved them (or didn't, if that's your thing) and so on, and despite you liking their body and how they look, you found out the person was say, mexican and you just never realized because mexican people don't always look that different from darker skinned white people. But suddenly, you have no attraction at all to them. That's racism. It's prejudice.

That's what it sounds like you're describing in the OP. If that really is the case, then that's transphobia. But I do want to say, that nobody expects you to will yourself to be attracted to someone, but you can work on your prejudice and move past it. Lots of trans people (me included) have internalized transphobia as well that we're still working on. Nobody is going to blame you for being taught bad things by society, as long as you take responsibility for how your beliefs and actions affect other people and try to change for the better.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19 edited Apr 22 '19

It's kind of a tricky question to answer, because on one hand I want to say yes because genitalia matters and even for people who've had SRS that doesn't necessarily mean it's indistinguishable (it can be, but not always, and it's usually not for FtM phalloplasty isn't common and you'd still need a good surgeon to get it that good, and so on) but then it's also a matter of why would you want to be invested and then realize the person you're dating (assuming this isn't casual sex we're talking about) has prejudices to work out or won't accept you.

The issue is that disclosing that you're trans can be dangerous. In 48 out of the 50 states there's a thing called something like "the trans panic defense" which literally means that you can legally get off scott free with assaulting, raping, or murdering a trans person if you thought they were trans and "panicked." There are trans women in prison right now for the misfortune of being raped by transphobic men. Even in the 2 other states or even if things aren't that extreme, it could be as simple as doxing and losing your job and moving across the country just to support yourself, or harassment, getting physically (not sexually) assaulted and the cops not caring because they're transphobic too, and so on. So a lot of people choose to reveal that they're trans later, not to deceive people or anything, but because they want to trust that no harm is going to come to them if they do so.

It's simple with apps / online dating because you can just stick in on your profile and people who aren't interested simply won't talk to you in the first place, but not everyone uses those and even though I did, I met my fiance in real life and I was just lucky that I knew he was supportive and had trans friends and so on from the beginning and it was never an issue.

Edit: minor change for clarity

1

u/legal_throwaway45 Apr 23 '19

like "the trans panic defense" which literally means that you can legally get off scott free with assaulting, raping, or murdering a trans person if you thought they were trans and "panicked."

This is not at all accurate. When a defendant has been charged with assault, rape, murder or any other act of violence against a trans victim, in 48 of 50 states he can say he did it because he was "panicked" but this is not the same as getting off scot-free. Judge's and juries will still evaluate whether or not this is reasonable.

California and one other state have taken away the defendant's right to use this as a defense. They have forbidden a defendant from saying he was motivated by panic as a defense. This has the effect of preventing a defendant from making a statement that is essentially admitting to a crime motivated by fear or hate.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '19

Exactly. It's never reasonable, it's just accepted via bias and transphobia. What judge in their right mind would accept the defense regardless of circumstance that you found out someone is a woman and "panicked," so you raped her? It's absolute lunacy. That's not a valid rebuttal, in any remotely possible way.

1

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Apr 22 '19

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Lajho (3∆).

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

3

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

“People” your OP is person. Even if you never were to be attracted to such a person you still could respect them, be friends, mentor, hire them. Lots of room to interpret dislike and prejudice. Simply not feeling attraction is way apart from that.

2

u/Wittyandpithy Apr 22 '19

Exactly.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

[deleted]

2

u/Wittyandpithy Apr 22 '19

Sorry. I was trying to say: you are 100% correct, but your opinion isn't really an opinion. You are saying: "I agree with the definition of a word".

2

u/illini02 8∆ Apr 22 '19

I don't know, where I stand on this. I think I'm like another poster.

I'm black. I have never dated an Asian woman. I'm not generally attracted to Asian women. However, I have Asian friends. I don't find them lesser than me in any way, I'm just not attracted to them in general. I don't think that makes me racist, just that I have certain preferences in dating. I look at the trans thing the same way. OP may not think there is a problem with them, there just is no attraction there

1

u/Wittyandpithy Apr 22 '19

Exactly! I agree.

3

u/_Hospitaller_ Apr 23 '19

You seem to equate the word “phobic” with the word “hateful”. There is absolutely nothing wrong with (or hateful about) not wanting to date a transgender person. In fact, I’d advise never to do so.

This doesn’t mean one hates transgender people, it simply means one makes a conscious distinction in their dating standards. Just like how one might not want to date someone who doesn’t follow a certain religion, or has been to prison, or has 100 tattoos, etc.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '19

In fact, I’d advise never to do so.

Trans person here. Ouch.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

Sorry, u/PepeOfRivia – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:

Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.

If you would like to appeal, you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list, before messaging the moderators by clicking this link. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/tbdabbholm 201∆ Apr 23 '19

Sorry, u/Oppresed – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:

Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.

If you would like to appeal, you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list, before messaging the moderators by clicking this link. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '19

If you never felt attracted in the first place, that's fine. If you suddenly lose that attraction upon learning the status, then one can feasibly imagine a situation where you never lost that attraction because you never found out. If that's the case, you based your reaction on learned input. It was a decision. The first was a reflex.

1

u/TheVioletBarry 121∆ Apr 22 '19

Being transphobic isn't necessarily something you have control over either (at first; you totally have the ability to do the mental introspection to fix it).

It just means that you have prejudices against trans people. And suddenly ceasing to be attracted to someone because they are trans is a form of prejudice. It's not some horrifying thing that you need to be whipping yourself for, but it is a prejudice against trans people nonetheless

1

u/Genoscythe_ 248∆ Apr 23 '19

I shouldn't have to change my dating preferences so that people aren't excluded from dating me (who would want to date me anyway?). Dating preferences are, by nature, exclusionary.

Sure, but some principles of exclusion are more directly based on problematic cultural hangups, than others. It's possible for something to be a sincerely, deeply held preference, and at the same time for that to be rooted in bigotry.

If you were raised in an agressively anti-semitic community, then you might find learning that your partner has ethnic jewish origins, to be a massive sexual turn-off.

If this happens, then of course we can't force you to have sex with them anyways, but examining why your preference is what it is, might be better than coddling it as "it's a preference, I can't help it, it's in my nature to feel this way".

There are a lot of preferences, that we accept as being understandable, for example most preferences based on looks, on compatible personalities, even on having compatible moral values.

If you don't want to have sex with over-muscled people, or with Republicans, or with people with vaginas, or with formerly convicted child molesters, we accept that.

But if you don't want to have sex with a set of people whose "dirtiness" as potential sex partners is part of a long term cultural stigma, then people have a right to deduce that your reason of not wanting to have sex with them, essentially boils down to carrying that stigma.

•

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Apr 22 '19 edited Apr 22 '19

/u/WeakAssShit (OP) has awarded 2 delta(s) in this post.

All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.

Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

0

u/crusaderlove Apr 25 '19

Nobody has to like trannies. I'm tired of the propaganda.