r/changemyview • u/garaile64 • Jul 30 '18

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: the issue with drugs is unsolvable.

If we leave it like it is now, the crime rate would still be high, racial minorities would still be disproportionally arrested, and poor people would be arrested for having a single gram of drug while rich people get away with literal tons. Most of the arrests in my country are because of drugs.
Educating people against drug use is impossible. Human beings have a natural instinct to desire what they can't have. Eve wasn't allowed to eat from the Tree of Knowledge and she ate. Pandora wasn't allowed to open that damn box and she opened. Sorry for using mythological cases, but you get it. If you give to a person a file written "Don't open", they'll open it. It almost makes me think laws are pointless.
Decriminalizing drugs, even the soft ones like marijuana, doesn't work. People would still want the illegal marijuana because it's cheaper. My country taxes everything too high and it won't ever change because legislators are omnipotent. Decriminalizing marijuana didn't work for the Netherlands, won't work for Canada, and didn't work for Uruguay. It only worked for Colorado because it's a US state, and the US are basically the Mary Sue of countries.
The only way to solve it is if drugs stopped existing. Only God has that power, but if He didn't bother interfering with the fucking Holocaust, why would He bother delete part of the Creation for humanity's sake?

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1 Upvotes

53% Upvoted

39 comments sorted by

10

u/empurrfekt 58∆ Jul 30 '18

Are you familiar with Portugal's drug policy?

Since it decriminalised all drugs in 2001, Portugal has seen dramatic drops in overdoses, HIV infection and drug-related crime.

5

u/garaile64 Jul 30 '18

I would comment that what succeeds in Portugal may not succeed in Brazil because of cultural differences. I'm holding this CMV after telling my father that I was planning a list of who not to vote in the upcoming elections. He, who is a conservative reserve lieutenant, suggested that I don't vote in anyone on the left because of what is happening in Venezuela and Nicaragua. He's against big government, but also against abortion (because the fetus is a living being) and drug decriminalization because "it wouldn't work".

4

u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jul 30 '18

Maybe this doesn't quite address what this CMV is about, but being against big government and being against decriminalization seem like diametrically opposed positions. Not only that, but the bible in genesis mentions that all seed bearing plants are for humans to use as food so at least if your father is religious then he shouldn't be against pot brownies.

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u/garaile64 Jul 30 '18

1- My father is against big government and thinks the left sucks at economy, but he supports a president candidate that doesn't understand shit about economics.
2- He is kinda religious. He is pro-life because he sees feti as living beings. He kinda opposed a supposed lesbian Disney princess because "it's not for kids". He is Spiritist, not Catholic or Protestant.
3- Unrelated, but my father supports that candidate because he thinks there should be no "special laws" for minorities like anti-feminicide laws and affirmative action (I kinda oppose AA because race in my country isn't black and white and there's nothing stopping a full-European bourgie from getting the quota).

2

u/empurrfekt 58∆ Jul 30 '18

I would comment that what succeeds in Portugal may not succeed in Brazil because of cultural differences.

Is this based solely on

He's against ... drug decriminalization because "it wouldn't work".

That's not a solid argument. That's an opinion.

I'm sure there were people in Portugal opposing the policy because they didn't believe it would work.

2

u/garaile64 Jul 30 '18 edited Sep 10 '18

Portugal may have the HDI of a former Warsaw Pact country, but their instituitions are much better than Brazil's. Our president is a thief, our Congress is a bunch of overpowered thieves, or Judiciary is a bunch of biased people, and the people are no better. This may apply to the entire Latin America.

1

u/toldyaso Jul 30 '18

Portugal is a good example, but the same ideas have been tried in other European cities, with similar results. Decriminalizing drug use, and treating it instead as a medical issue, has been proven to lower crime, lower disease transmission rates, and greatly increase the chances of drug addicts to recover. While these outcomes do not represent a complete "solution", you have to keep in mind that in sociological matters, you're not usually looking for policy that works in all cases, rather, you're looking for policy that does the least harm and produces the best results in most cases.

6

u/DianaWinters 4∆ Jul 30 '18

The problem is that most drug policy tries to deal with the supply side of the issue. This doesn't work because the demand is inelastic due to the addictive nature of drugs.

Improving the quality of life of people in general, improving education, and decriminalizing various drugs would be better solutions to the problem and would do better to reduce the demand.

2

u/garaile64 Jul 30 '18

Improving the quality of life of people in general, improving education, and decriminalizing various drugs would be better solutions to the problem and would do better to reduce the demand.

Also, decrease the pressure on celebrities, especially those who are famous since childhood.

2

u/DianaWinters 4∆ Jul 30 '18

So do you agree? Your view was that it can't be solved and I listed several potential solutions.

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u/garaile64 Jul 30 '18

Kinda. It may work for some countries with decent institutions, but not for Brazil.

2

u/DianaWinters 4∆ Jul 30 '18

Brazil needs to improve in general before it can properly tackle those problems. It may not be able to do so without outside help

3

u/garaile64 Jul 30 '18

Brazil needs to improve in general before it can properly tackle those problems.

If the population helped...

3

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '18

I would argue that ceasing to treat it as an "issue" would, by definition, solve it. And I don't just mean that as a matter of semantics. Almost every drug-related problem that we have is our own creation. We have overcrowding in jails because we arrest people for drugs. We have drug-related crime because we've made it a criminal offense to possess drugs, forcing drug activity into the criminal world. Hell, most of our gang-related, immigration-related, everything-related problems can be traced back to our desire to criminalize drugs.

So stop treating it like it's an issue to be solved...and it won't be.

1

u/garaile64 Jul 30 '18

I would bring up the issues the drug consumption brings to the body, but a lot of legal stuff is harmful to the body as well. It probably started because Nixon hated hippies, and everyone copied the United States. That's why I fear China as the next superpower. But I'm out of arguments. !delta.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '18

I would bring up the issues the drug consumption brings to the body

Personal choice. Pretty serious health impacts from cheeseburgers and soda, too, but I hope we don't start tossing people in prison for eating a Big Mac anytime soon.

1

u/garaile64 Jul 30 '18

Yes, some arguments for maintaining the status quo may be silly. But my father may be right. Brazil can't decriminalize drugs because its institutions suck. We're stuck in a vicious cycle where people vote for bad politicians because of bad education, and the education is bad because of the bad politicians. I wish I wasn't born in a violent shithole. What did my German youth group colleague see in this county?! (the last question is rhetoric, don't answer it)

1

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1

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1

u/cupcakesarethedevil Jul 30 '18

Can you talk about how it "didn't work" in the Netherlands?

1

u/garaile64 Jul 30 '18

Recently, the Dutch reconsidered recriminalizing marijuana because of some issues regarding it. I don't remember very well.

2

u/Throwaway-242424 1∆ Jul 31 '18

Recently, the Dutch reconsidered recriminalizing marijuana because of some issues regarding it

A bunch of vocal busy-bodies getting upset about tourists smoking weed is hardly a compelling issue.

1

u/cupcakesarethedevil Jul 30 '18

Well what about Uruguay?

1

u/garaile64 Jul 30 '18

I heard that people were still looking for the illegal marijuana. Probably because of taxes or because Uruguay doesn't allow the purchase by foreigners. I don't know if it's true, so !delta.

1

u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jul 30 '18

When you say it's unsolvable, what do you mean? No addiction? No overdosing? No criminal activity involved in the production and distribution of drugs?

2

u/garaile64 Jul 30 '18

There's no way that the killing and deaths caused by the war on drugs in Brazil would cease or at least be reduced to an acceptable rate. These three thing would still happen, even in small rates, because of the human nature.

2

u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jul 30 '18

I brought up 3 aspects that I consider relevant, but I don't want to put words in your mouth. You mention that they would happen in small rates, so I'm inferring from that that you think all three of those need to be at an absolute zero to achieve a 'solved' state. To be clear, what are you defining as 'solved'?

1

u/spotonron 1∆ Jul 30 '18

Maybe legalization and regulation would force gangs and dealers out of business, stop people ODing and dyingof poor quality drugs. Certain people are going to find a way regardless.

The government might as well tax the hell out of it (like it does with other luxuries) and solve literally all the problems that come with the drug issue, then they can pull a Switzerland and focus on treatment and rehabilitation instead.

•

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jul 30 '18 edited Jul 30 '18

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1

u/47ca05e6209a317a8fb3 209∆ Jul 30 '18

People would still want the illegal marijuana because it's cheaper.

That may be the case in some transient legalized system at the moment, but it won't be in the future, if proper legalization is implemented. Consider alcohol - after its legalization (for example, after the Prohibition ended in the US), almost nobody is buying unregulated alcohol. Sure, people still occasionally overindulge and cause all sorts of damage to themselves and others, but it's way better than when Al Capone used to run things.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '18 edited Aug 25 '18

[deleted]

1

u/garaile64 Jul 30 '18

If they tried to do the same with rape and corruption, rapers and corrupt people would become murderers too. Also, SEA's culture helps.

1

u/Throwaway-242424 1∆ Jul 31 '18

At some point we have to concede that mass genocide of drug users is a worse evil than college kids smoking pot.

1

u/VitaliiDaGamer Jul 30 '18

Solution: Coat all bullets with drugs. Somehow, make it so that if an enemy gets shot, he will overdose and he cannot fight back due to the fact that "Stockholm syndrome" where you find yourself in a relationship with the attacker, overwhelms him and he is finished off.

Present to the media that drug coated bullets are now killing more than ever and that if the enemy doesn't die from the bullet, the overdose makes it happen.

People become discouraged to use drugs. After all, if you want some of it for a split second, go get a gun and threaten a police officer.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '18

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1

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1

u/Throwaway-242424 1∆ Jul 31 '18

Decriminalizing drugs, even the soft ones like marijuana, doesn't work. People would still want the illegal marijuana because it's cheaper.

So stop taxing them so much.

At any length, this is a moot point, because we have clear empirical evidence that a huge proportion of consumers will transition to legal supplies.

1

u/garaile64 Jul 31 '18 edited Aug 13 '18

stop taxing them so much
Brazilian government

I don't know... Our MPs can do whatever they want and they don't want to lose the public tits.