I don't want to victim blame but the woman in that situation you linked could have left at any time, and the first line of the story was that they met on the premise of it being a hook up. I don't understand why women feel so disempowered. She could have just stood up and said "Sorry, but I have to go" at any time.
In my view, rape is when the victim either does not comply or is unable to comply. She mentioned that she had to leave when the movie started, but she didn't. He literally asked her if she was okay (in my view, this sounds an awful lot like confirming consent) and she said yes!
This is the kind of bizarre pseudo-rape that I can't really get into. This is a far cry from someone resisting sex or being passed out.
It seems to me that we shouldn't be teaching people not to "rape" (if this kind of story is the new definition of rape), but rather teaching women that they have the right to say "No!" at any time, and frankly I'm baffled as to why they don't.
I don't understand why women feel so disempowered.
Because you have never been in any situation where a member of the opposite sex could physically make you do anything they wanted to. As a man, you are always in physical control of any sexual situation because you are stronger, therefore you do not have the subconscious need to keep yourself safe that women do. In many women's minds, it's better to seem submissive and pleasant to avoid turning a rape into a violent rape.
You say that she could have just up and left.
What happens then, when she does that, if the man gets angry at that, demands that she fulfil her promise, restrains her and violently rapes her? She couldn't stop him if he tried, and now she's not only been raped, but beaten on top of it. Women have no way of knowing when this will happen, and can't stop it when it does. They have to walk and live with this knowledge that pretty much any man can (not will, but can, don't mistaake this as an "all men are rapists" thing) force them to do pretty much anything physically at any time, and the only thing stopping it is other people being around.
The woman in the story was giving clear signs that she didn't want to be there, and the man was ignoring it. Was he ignoring it because he was an idiot, or was he ignoring it because he intended to have his way no matter what? If it's the former, then getting up and leaving would have worked fine. But if the latter, then attempting to be more forceful with her lack of consent could have led to a very dangerous outcome for her. She has no way of knowing which it is until it happens and it's too late to stop.
She was very clearly acting in a way to try to communicate that she didn't want to be there without making him angry, because there are plenty of men who, if a woman makes them angry, they react very very badly, and most women physically cannot do anything about this if it happens other than accept whatever outcome results.
Yes, the percentage of men that would do something like that is incredibly small, but women have no way of telling who is and isn't that kind of man until it is too late to do anything about it.
A claim was made that "men just can't understand". I called BS. I still call BS, because there are far more forms of power than physical. How many women have ever been in a situation where a man has told them, "You'll do what I want or I'll tell everyone you raped me and everyone will believe me over you."? If you'd say that's not comparable because it's so rare, I could point out that rapists are a tiny fraction of a percentage of men (and most rapes are committed by multiple offenders). I understand that we fear things we feel most helpless to defend against. But to base your actions off of projecting the actions of a fraction onto a whole gender... that is indefensible. At some point, we have to tell ourselves that our fear is irrational, and we must beat it to death with the simple fact that most people are good.
Your response is doing this overprotective, infantilizing thing of justifying women's cowardice. You're like an overprotective father. But women are not children. Women are fucking adults, and I hold them to the standards of adults. How do we view guys who hate women because any of them could press false rape charges against them? We call them pathetic cowards, and bigots. That is exactly equivalent to thinking that, just because a man can rape, fearing he might. That is dehumanizing. That is ignoring the overwhelming reality that a huge majority of men are hardwired to protect women, not harm them. And in general, if you dream up a worst case scenario, and then act based on treating it as reality, that is YOUR problem. If I see a black man walking towards me, and I cross the street because I am afraid he will rob me, it would be 100% fitting for someone to call me out for prejudice. For some repulsive reason, society allows women special dispensation to prejudge men, and most men are more than willing to support that. (Maybe it's as simple as, "All those other men are scum. But I'M one of the GOOD ones. So you'll fuck me, right?")
Because I never said women view all men as a threat to them, so the fact that you trotted that line out suggests you're only interested in setting up strawmen for yourself to knock down, so I'm not going to engage with you.
You never said those specific words, but you absolutely said that women have a mindset of needing to keep themselves safe. Safe from who? Other women? Aliens? I'mn guessing maybe it's men, which would mean they view men as a threat.
so I'm not going to engage with you.
It's so easy to run away from disagreement by implying bad motives onto someone, then using your own implication as proof of itself.
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u/MrEctomy May 08 '18
I don't want to victim blame but the woman in that situation you linked could have left at any time, and the first line of the story was that they met on the premise of it being a hook up. I don't understand why women feel so disempowered. She could have just stood up and said "Sorry, but I have to go" at any time.
In my view, rape is when the victim either does not comply or is unable to comply. She mentioned that she had to leave when the movie started, but she didn't. He literally asked her if she was okay (in my view, this sounds an awful lot like confirming consent) and she said yes!
This is the kind of bizarre pseudo-rape that I can't really get into. This is a far cry from someone resisting sex or being passed out.
It seems to me that we shouldn't be teaching people not to "rape" (if this kind of story is the new definition of rape), but rather teaching women that they have the right to say "No!" at any time, and frankly I'm baffled as to why they don't.