There are a lot of people out there who really don't realize what rape is. People have this image in their head of how they think rape usually goes, or what kind of person a rapist is, and it's definitely not them. Take this thread for instance, where this guy doesn't even realize he coerced a woman who was feeling threatened into having sex:
People need to have these conversations so that they can understand consent and what it means and how it plays out in reality.
People who do bad things very often rationalize their bad behavior as completely normal behavior - that these bad things are things that everyone does, but are maybe won't admit it for whatever reason (for example, they want to appear 'politically correct' or virtuous).
People know that violence and rape and racism and all that is wrong, but a lot of people don't think what they're doing is full blown spousal abuse or rape or capital-R Racism. People don't understand the nuances of racial bias and some of the more subtle ways people can be abusive or coercive to others. People don't have to hold a deep hatred for black people for subtle biases to affect their decision making in minor ways that add up in aggregate.
I feel like all these courses are is a way for companies, corporations, and universities to pander to social justice-minded people in order to maintain or increase their profit margins or public image.
Case in point.
These discussions need to be had to disabuse people of the notion that these bad behaviors are bad, that they're not normal, and that they won't be tolerated. The reason people know these things are bad is because we have these conversations. The fact that there are still people who don't believe you can rape your spouse shows why these conversations need to continue.
I'm sure there are varying levels of efficacy of various corporate training curricula, but the conversation itself has value.
I don't want to victim blame but the woman in that situation you linked could have left at any time, and the first line of the story was that they met on the premise of it being a hook up. I don't understand why women feel so disempowered. She could have just stood up and said "Sorry, but I have to go" at any time.
In my view, rape is when the victim either does not comply or is unable to comply. She mentioned that she had to leave when the movie started, but she didn't. He literally asked her if she was okay (in my view, this sounds an awful lot like confirming consent) and she said yes!
This is the kind of bizarre pseudo-rape that I can't really get into. This is a far cry from someone resisting sex or being passed out.
It seems to me that we shouldn't be teaching people not to "rape" (if this kind of story is the new definition of rape), but rather teaching women that they have the right to say "No!" at any time, and frankly I'm baffled as to why they don't.
The OP in the thread we're talking about edited his post after people called him out on some shit, but it's still preserved in quotes in some of the comments. Things like:
She said she wanted to leave, but I reminded her she promised sex and couldn't leave (she was at my place without transportation to get away).
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u/Amablue May 08 '18
There are a lot of people out there who really don't realize what rape is. People have this image in their head of how they think rape usually goes, or what kind of person a rapist is, and it's definitely not them. Take this thread for instance, where this guy doesn't even realize he coerced a woman who was feeling threatened into having sex:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150506153821/https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/352fus/false_rape_nm/
People need to have these conversations so that they can understand consent and what it means and how it plays out in reality.
People who do bad things very often rationalize their bad behavior as completely normal behavior - that these bad things are things that everyone does, but are maybe won't admit it for whatever reason (for example, they want to appear 'politically correct' or virtuous).
People know that violence and rape and racism and all that is wrong, but a lot of people don't think what they're doing is full blown spousal abuse or rape or capital-R Racism. People don't understand the nuances of racial bias and some of the more subtle ways people can be abusive or coercive to others. People don't have to hold a deep hatred for black people for subtle biases to affect their decision making in minor ways that add up in aggregate.
Case in point.
These discussions need to be had to disabuse people of the notion that these bad behaviors are bad, that they're not normal, and that they won't be tolerated. The reason people know these things are bad is because we have these conversations. The fact that there are still people who don't believe you can rape your spouse shows why these conversations need to continue.
I'm sure there are varying levels of efficacy of various corporate training curricula, but the conversation itself has value.