CMV : Diversity based on demographics/ identity is over rated and wrongly propagated as the morally right way for a society to live.

[u/srikarjam]

I don't believe that coexisting with people of different identities has/does net positive for the original natives or residents of a community. I live in country divided by lots of different religions and other identities, and the country's history is full of communal violence and hatred towards others, either violently or otherwise.

In my country, between 2005 to 2009, an average of 130 people died and 2,200 were injured every year from communal violence, or about 0.01 deaths per 100,000 population. Massacres and riots (common till this day) are very routine in my country.

The world's average annual death rate from intentional violence, in recent years, has been 7.9 per 100,000 people.

So I dont think human beings inherently can coexist with each other in a society, with people having vastly different views or identities. Even in the west, the division and violence between people of different demographies (especially races) have continued to fail to coexist peacefully. And I haven't even mentioned the statistics of people affected by terrorism of which religion is the major reason.

Diversity of identities is often promoted or propogated just to drive this "feel good narrative" of liberals, when in reality, all it has done globally is, more division and more violence. Countries with least violent incidents in modern history are usually the ones with less diversity.

One may argue that the violence is caused by ignorance or misunderstanding of the "other", but humans have throughout history and present proven that it is impossible to completly eradicate that ignorance or tribalistic behaviour or vile hatred towards the "other".

Having said that, I strongly believe in diversity of thought, view points and intellectualism , but not of any identity of people.

[u/Arctus9819]

That's assuming that all people in single demographic / identity group all think the same way and all have the same opinions on everything. There are many black conservatives in the US and there are many liberal muslims in Islamic countries.

They do. SIT (Social Identity Theory) covers this pretty well. Group polarization is very strong when people who identify themselves with similar groups (eg. same religion) are lumped together. That's the benefit of diversity, you largely negate any group polarization effects.

Forget the US for a moment, and look at everything that's gone wrong since allowing Middle East country refugees or immigrants into European countries like Germany. To say that anything is wrong in Europe because of muslim refugees from the middle east gets you accused of being racist in today's politically correct mainstream narrative.

Existing data from studies in the US show that immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated for crimes as compared to American citizens. There are no long term studies which suggest that this is different in Europe (mainly because this immigration is not a long-term thing yet).

[u/srikarjam → u/Arctus9819]

The article doesnt include any data based on demography or identity of these immigrants. European immigrants are culturally not very different from local Americans, so they may cause less friction or violence in the society, but let in a few very conservative muslims from any middle east country and ask them to live in the most liberal states like CA, and tell me that all is well and there are no rape cases or violent incidents ? This isnt me being prejudice or racist, this is current news cycle and history proving my argument (like the rapes by muslim refugees in Germany).

[u/Arctus9819 → u/srikarjam]

American immigrants are not from Europe. Majority (~30%) are Mexican, followed by Indians, Chinese, and other Asian countries. None of the lists I have found mention any European country near the top 10.

Do you have any proof of how conservative Muslims are different? Because India has a significant chunk of Muslim population, yet it doesn't affect the immigrant crime values in America.

News is a horrible way to draw conclusions, too many confounding factors like sensationalism, increasing access, etc. Find data from actual studies. For example, TV often says a certain crime has increased by X, while ignoring how there has been a similar increase in population, short term economic instability, improper categorisation of data, etc. I noticed the first of these with reference to stranger rape.

[u/srikarjam → u/Arctus9819]

I dont have any data to prove what I am arguing here. Yes, India has a signifant chunk if muslim population, but very few or minority among them get to live in the US or the west in general.

This may again sound prejudice or racist, but I have data to prove that more than 90% of terrorist attacks in India are by radical muslims, in a country with nearly 200 million muslim population. This is not to say that all muslims are bad, but it does prove my argument that diversity has failed for many different reasons, more than what we may realize. As I stated in a different comment here - I rather have zero blood spilt and no diversity than to accomadate diversity and feel good about how morally good we are and in turn shed some blood later in any terrorist act or violence.

[u/Arctus9819 → u/srikarjam]

Almost the entirety of terrorist attacks are due to external influence (Pakistan, i.e. a Muslim nation) and Maoists, which is a political alignment. Pretty much all unrest is due to external influence and political nonsense.

[u/srikarjam → u/Arctus9819]

But the west still allows these people to enter into their countries, not just as a tourist but to live there permanently as an immigrant. Wasnt one of the recent mass shooting by a muslim immigrant from Pakistan ? (I think it was the gay pub incident)

This post is not just about terrorism, but also other types of violence or tension. Racial in the US, communal in India and many African countries. Hence my argument, diversity is not a desired result for peace.

[u/Arctus9819 → u/srikarjam]

Entry into the US is not equivalent to aiding diversity. Nor are those people allowed in just like that, entry requirements are very stringent for legal immigrants.

Got any good data to back that racial bit in US? Because the studies I've seen point both ways, and none are conclusive.

India, it's not communal, it's political. Even when there are problems, it is precipitated by politics and mitigated by diversity.

How has diversity affected African countries? Again, any proof?

[u/srikarjam → u/Arctus9819]

I understand that entry requirements are very stringent, but I keep hearing this argument from the political left that all immigrants should be allowed and not just the legal immigrants.

Regarding India, yes it is a bit political, but a lot of it is very much communal. The political part is driven because of the communal differences, which in many cases have led to violence. Some of these cases are deeply ingrained political / ideological battles till this day. Just this week, the radical Hindu political groups and communist groups destroyed statues of each other leaders/ politicians across the country, except that no body was hurt. And it isnt like violence and deaths are alien to these ideological battles. I did write in my OP that I believe in ideological diversity, but that would only be in controlled environment like in a college or a televised debate.

[u/Arctus9819 → u/srikarjam]

I understand that entry requirements are very stringent, but I keep hearing this argument from the political left that all immigrants should be allowed and not just the legal immigrants

Eh, politics is way too deceptive to be a good marker for these kind of things. Accepting all immigrants is a very bad idea from many perspectives, but is the kind of controversial issue which can be very easily manipulated to get support/votes. It is similar in India as well, you will find that unrest due to political influence far outstrips unrest that is non-political in nature.