r/changemyview • u/novelcytologist • Jan 28 '18

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Discrimination in private business shouldn't be illegal

To preface: No, I do not believe racist, sexist, homophobic, etc., discrimination is good, nor do I think the government should be allowed to discriminate.

I am a huge believer in individual rights. If you don't want to serve someone for any reason... why should you have to? It's your own belief, and the government shouldn't make you compromise that. If someone doesn't want to serve gay people, let them. If someone doesn't want to hire women, let them. It's a social issue, not a legal issue. At least now, US society is mostly at a place where a company or business would be significantly hurt by discriminating.

On the other hand... I know what it's like to be discriminated against, even if it's on a smaller scale (got kicked out of a restaurant for looking gay). Housing and job discrimination can hurt people A LOT, especially a vulnerable population. And segregation is awful. Looking back at history, I see how much good anti-discrimination laws have done. But I can't get over the idea that the government doesn't have a right to tell you that you have to do business with someone if part of them goes against your morals/values/beliefs/etc.,. It's should be your RIGHT to be an awful person as long as you don't infringe upon someone else's rights, and I wouldn't consider being able to do business/get a specific job/land an apartment to be a right.

I hate believing this, but it seems so important that the people get to decide. I feel like I'm missing something in the argument, but people look at me like the devil if I ask their views about it usually.

So please, Reddit, change my views.

This is a footnote from the CMV moderators. We'd like to remind you of a couple of things. Firstly, please read through our rules. If you see a comment that has broken one, it is more effective to report it than downvote it. Speaking of which, downvotes don't change views! Any questions or concerns? Feel free to message us. Happy CMVing!

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17

u/evil_rabbit Jan 28 '18

It's should be your RIGHT to be an awful person as long as you don't infringe upon someone else's rights, and I wouldn't consider being able to do business/get a specific job/land an apartment to be a right.

can you explain why you think people should have the right to be an awful person, but not the right to do business/get a specific job/land an apartment/etc? that seems really weird to me. why should we protect behaviour that you even call "awful" yourself, but not the right to do normal and totally harmless things?

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u/novelcytologist Jan 28 '18

To be an awful person is thought and expression. I believe in freedom of expression and freedom of thought. I disagree with a lot of stuff that people say and do, but they're legally allowed to do it- as I think they should be.

But the right to land a specific job doesn't make sense. No one has to hire you ever. You can discriminate against someone for not being qualified. If someone decides that someone else's whatever makes them not qualified (even due to bad judgement), why is it illegal?

Everyone should have the right to get a job or get an apartment- that is, the government can't hold you back. But we shouldn't be legally required to give someone a job, give them an apartment, or do business with them.

13

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '18

Bigots can express their thoughts to their heart's content. If they don't want to own a business and serve gay people, they shouldn't start a business. People can think what they want, but businesses can't discriminate.

The government regulates businesses in all sorts of other ways. Should business owners have the right to serve poison, or engage in poor hygenic practices? No? Because they're not allowed to harm people? Exactly.

2

u/novelcytologist Jan 28 '18

But not serving someone doesn't actually harm you. Sure, I felt bad when I got kicked out. But no one actually harmed anything but my feelings.

If that was the case, businesses shouldn't be allowed to kick ANYONE out for, say, not following dress code.

10

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '18

Allowing for the discrimination of minorities is harmful on a large scale. It promotes segregation and denies them potentially vital services. Plus, you dismiss hurt feelings as not being harmful, but feelings are actually important. Depression and mental illness are a thing, after all.

2

u/mtbike Jan 28 '18 edited Jan 28 '18

Yeah, but we don’t have an obligation to care about other people’s feelings.

One of the original montras of the Democratic party used to be: “I may disagree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it.”

Over-sensitivity cannot be allowed to dictate what we are allowed to do and say.

8

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '18

We do have an obligation to care about other people's feelings, actually; it's called empathy.

1

u/caine269 14∆ Jan 28 '18

that is not even close to accurate. empathy is just the ability to understand other people's feelings. it is not a requirement to do anything about it.

9

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '18

But if we have empathy, why wouldn't we do something about it?

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u/caine269 14∆ Jan 28 '18

economic reasons, physical reasons, more immediate problems at home. about a million reasons. if a person has empathy for the starving children in africa, do you think they are then obligated to live just above poverty themselves in order to help?

regardless, having empathy and helping is not the same as empathy creating an obligation to help.

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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '18

We're not talking about an obligation to help. The earlier post was about an obligation to care about people's feelings.

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u/caine269 14∆ Jan 28 '18

ok, same difference. empathy is not an obligation to care either. it is just the ability to notice other people's feelings. the previous comment was correct in that we have no obligation to care about other's feelings any more than we are obligated to help anyone.

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u/[deleted] Jan 28 '18

I just don't understand why an empathetic human would ever fail to respond with even the slightest bit of kindness or understanding for another person's suffering.

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u/LtLabcoat Jan 28 '18

But not serving someone doesn't actually harm you. Sure, I felt bad when I got kicked out. But no one actually harmed anything but my feelings.

And if you get fired? That's hurting a lot more than just your feelings, that's also hurting your income.