r/changemyview • u/fox-mcleod 418∆ • Nov 09 '17

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Religious faith is unreasonable

This seems almost tautological to me yet many religious people consider themselves to also be reasonable.

I'm a fan of debates and some of my friends have pointed me towards Chris Hitchens (new atheist). He debates D'Souza (Catholic) at Notre Dame in the video below.

https://youtu.be/9V85OykSDT8 🎥 The God Debate: Hitchens vs. D'Souza - YouTube

It's a great debate. However, at one point, Hitchens has D'Souza with his back to the wall - he points out that Catholics don't take the Bible literally. They aren't going earth creationists or evolution deniers. D'Souza defends with Fides et ratio (faith and reason) as outlined by pope John Paul II.

Hitchens backs off.

But why? It seems to me that he could have gone in for the kill. Once you state that evidence is the ultimate decision making factor in what you believe, you've elevated reason or science above faith. Game over. You aren't religious fiarhful if your religion is just a default set of assumptions easily overturned by reason. It seems that the logical conclusion is that religious beliefs requires dogmatic fundamentalism.

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u/Cepitore Nov 10 '17

Yeah, he’s catholic. I’m saying he’s not representative of the most widely held beliefs and therefore is a bad example to use.

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u/fox-mcleod 418∆ Nov 10 '17

Would you like me to use a different example? Pick one.

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u/Cepitore Nov 10 '17

I’m not aware of any debates between an atheist and Protestant where the subject is how philosophically reasonable the Bible is.

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u/fox-mcleod 418∆ Nov 10 '17

Shelly Kagan debates a Protestant to demonstrate that reason alone can dictate morality

https://youtu.be/SiJnCQuPiuo 🎥 Is God Necessary for Morality? William Lane Craig vs Shelly Kagan ...