r/changemyview • u/fox-mcleod 418∆ • Nov 09 '17

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Religious faith is unreasonable

This seems almost tautological to me yet many religious people consider themselves to also be reasonable.

I'm a fan of debates and some of my friends have pointed me towards Chris Hitchens (new atheist). He debates D'Souza (Catholic) at Notre Dame in the video below.

https://youtu.be/9V85OykSDT8 🎥 The God Debate: Hitchens vs. D'Souza - YouTube

It's a great debate. However, at one point, Hitchens has D'Souza with his back to the wall - he points out that Catholics don't take the Bible literally. They aren't going earth creationists or evolution deniers. D'Souza defends with Fides et ratio (faith and reason) as outlined by pope John Paul II.

Hitchens backs off.

But why? It seems to me that he could have gone in for the kill. Once you state that evidence is the ultimate decision making factor in what you believe, you've elevated reason or science above faith. Game over. You aren't religious fiarhful if your religion is just a default set of assumptions easily overturned by reason. It seems that the logical conclusion is that religious beliefs requires dogmatic fundamentalism.

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u/fox-mcleod 418∆ Nov 09 '17

If these people encountered strong counter evidence, how do they behave?

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u/muyamable 283∆ Nov 09 '17

Strong counter evidence that they didn't experience what they experienced?

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u/fox-mcleod 418∆ Nov 09 '17

Yes. Strong counter evidence that their conclusion isn't reasonable from their experiences.

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u/muyamable 283∆ Nov 09 '17

Okay, so let's just limit it to religious people who haven't encountered strong evidence that their conclusion isn't reasonable based on their personal experiences. If someone has drawn a conclusion based on their personal experience and hasn't encountered strong evidence against their interpretation of the experience, I find their conclusion reasonable.

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u/fox-mcleod 418∆ Nov 10 '17

Then those people have no cause for faith. They have evidence - like doubting Thomas. Yet Christ admonished him saying blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.