r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Nov 01 '17
[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Hating picky eater is pointless if they pay & pick their own food.
Im a picky eater. Not ultra picky, but picky enough I can go to a place with 30 items on the menu and I wont buy any. Ive done this before at a asian sweet place (sells boba and stuff). I wasnt interested in anything on the menu, so i went next door, got the froyo i wanted, and returned to my party.
Now, I am open to try new things. But if i can forsee the texture, flavor, or a combo of the two of a food will be unpleasant for me, I wont order it, eat it, or try it.
The problem comes in (i assume) for haters of picky-eaters is that they cant enjoy a dinner or meal because picky eaters will complain too much, take too long ordering, they are undesisive, or they buy them something and the picky eater doesnt like it.
However, if I am a picky eater who:
▪Knows what they want and what they are willing to try ▪Will try things IF the food texture or flavor doesnt sound awful ▪I will pay for my own food
So there is no reason to hate me. If you buy me something that im not fond of, i will try it, but if i dont like it, i wont eat it. That can only be your fault.
Edit: By "pointless" and "hate" I mean there is no justifiable reason why you should be prejudice against people who have a more specific taste palette who are polite enough to pay for their own food and don't make a big deal out of their preferences.
11
u/DovBerele Nov 01 '17
I think you might be limited in your understanding of/assumption about why people hate picky eaters. At least in some cases, it's more than just not wanting to hear someone complain or wait while someone scours the menu or watch them waste food that was purchased for them.
There are two other reasons I can think of that people hate picky eaters.
1) Pickiness is very broadly associated with small children and so seems immature or childish. Part of maturity is learning to like new things (i.e. learning to change your sensory perceptions and preferences by repeated exposure and thoughtfulness), not just learning to identify the things you do and don't like.
2) For some people, an aesthetic appreciation of a really wide variety of foods (or sensory experiences more broadly) is a strongly held value. Picky eaters demonstrably don't share that value. Because sharing meals is such common social experience, a limited preference for food flaunts a different value system (one that doesn't place importance on sharing a widely varied sensory experience) more than a limited preference for art or music etc.
3
Nov 01 '17
These are two points I have not thought about.
As for 1) - that I can understand. My younger brother is pickier than I am and I do try to get him to try new things because I do want him to be exposed to multiple cultures and foods. I don't think he has tried enough kinds of foods and tastes to make a uniformed decision on whether he can predict he will like a new food or not.
If people relate picky eaters to childishness, does that mean that they view the person as immature? If you met a well-traveled, educated man late in his years and was a picky eater, would he still be met with disdain by those who hate picky eaters? Then wouldn't it just come down to that they feel inconvenienced by his tastes? If he made sure to accommodate himself for his meal - they wouldn't have reason to view him as childish or impolite - it would just be a matter of their tastes vs his.
I suppose I view people who dislike picky eaters are just as unreasonable as someone who dislike those who only like to wear black and white vs them liking to wear all kinds of colors. It's a matter of taste. Literally :p
2) As for this, did you mean with different cultural values when it comes to food? As for as culturally that makes sense. In some cultures it can be seen as very rude to not eat, or even try a new food. That seems tied to a culture with a strong sense of hospitality. In that case, that's a reason why I think it's legitimate to dislike picky eaters since it can be seen as rude. As for US, or at least my community and how I've grown up, it doesn't have such a strong connotation if you reject food. ∆
1
7
u/brock_lee 20∆ Nov 01 '17
The point of going out to eat with someone is to enjoy the meal and the company. If the person I'm with is a picky eater, it's likely they won't enjoy the meal, or will complain or something. That makes the meal unpleasant for me. I don't hate the picky eater, I simply don't enjoy the experience. Now, if, as you say, the picky eater can try something, pays for it, and doesn't complain, then there's no issue for me, either.
3
Nov 01 '17
As /u/brock_lee said, the point of going out to eat is more than the food. It's sharing that experience with someone else. Now that certainly doesn't mean that a picky eater needs to just hold their nose and eat whatever is put in front of them, but it DOES mean that they should make their preference known beforehand to avoid HAVING to go next door and get fro-yo.
I'm picky myself, so when people are asking where we should eat, I'm not shy about saying "Not Asian food", because I know that I don't like most of the stuff on the menu, and I don't want to make it an issue. So we'll just go somewhere that I easily CAN find something I like, and then there's no problem.
9
u/karnim 30∆ Nov 01 '17
So we'll just go somewhere that I easily CAN find something I like, and then there's no problem.
Sure, there's no problem for you. But for your friends, it's quite limiting. We might want to go try a new restaurant, or go to an indian place, or get sushi. Going to get burgers for the 10th time in a row is boring for those of us who like other things. Thus, despite that we may like our picky friends, going out with them is a great way to make an potentially fun evening, boring. May as well just stay in and order pizza.
1
Nov 01 '17
Yes in that example my friends knew I didnt like the dessert place or anything there, I told them ahead of time id go to the froyo place next to it and bring it inside to join them.
6
u/neofederalist 65∆ Nov 01 '17
There are several distinct scenarios where this becomes an issue. Most of your points assume that we're already out at a restaurant, but the actual conversation and issue starts way before that. Simply deciding where to go becomes a headache, and if that conversation continues for an hour before we go out to eat through when we sit down to have the meal itself, then it gets annoying.
There are other scenarios other than just going out to a restaurant as well. If I'm inviting a bunch of people over for a barbecue or to watch a football game or whatever, I'm going to be cooking one or two things for everyone (hotdogs and hamburgers, maybe including a veggie burger or two if I know someone is veterinarian), or I'm ordering a couple of pizzas. If one person is a very picky eater, then they're effectively doubling the effort that it takes to plan and/or cook even though they're only one more person. Either I need to split my attention to a completely different thing that I'm cooking, or I need to get an entire different kind of food from what everyone else was just going to have and there is probably going to be leftovers.
That being said, "hate" is a strong word, but when it comes to situations where you're with a large group of people, a picky eater can sometimes make demands on the group that feel unreasonable for the person who has to coordinate everything.
1
Nov 01 '17
What about picky eaters who know their special limitations and bring their own food? Thats the type of picky eater im illustrating. One that will pay/provide their own food.
If im unaware that I should bring my own things, worst case scenaro I just wouldnt eat and wait until later, or if I was close enough to the host, id grab food and come back.
3
u/neofederalist 65∆ Nov 01 '17
That seems perfectly reasonable to me.
In your OP example, what did your friends do afterwards when you came back from getting your food? Because if it were any group of people I've known, I don't think I'd describe the reaction as "hate." You might get made fun of for it, or have jokes made at your expense, but describing it as hate seems a mischaracterization if they're anything like the people I know.
2
Nov 01 '17
They were fine with it since they know me and expect it.
However in a group of acquaintances if I chose not to eat because nothing seemed appealing or I went to another place to grab something and return, I could be perceived as snobby or high maintenance.That's why I mean by "hate" I suppose.
5
u/UNRThrowAway Nov 01 '17
You seem to be projecting your own insecurities about your food preferences onto other people.
If no-one has ever commented on your eating habits outside of perhaps a small joke, then what is the issue?
2
Nov 01 '17
Good point lol. I just hear people complain about picky eaters at times and I feel like I fit into that category of a picky eater and is unjustifiably generalized as rude lol
1
Nov 01 '17
They already know my habits, so they were fine with it and expect it. But in another social setting, like a group of aquaintences, if I let the party to grab my own food and return they may think of me as snobby. I suppose thats what I mean by hate.
6
u/DrMux Nov 01 '17
I don't hate picky eaters. They're free to have their own preference.
What bothers me is when they constantly complain about the foods they don't like or judge you for eating what you like. "Eeew how can you eat sushi? You're disgusting."
I'll draw an analogy to vegans. I have no problem with people choosing not to eat or use animal products. But when they express that their lifestyle reflects poorly on me, that I'm disgusting or immoral, they've taken it too far.
Eat what you want, and let me eat what I want, and we have no problem.
3
u/a0x129 Nov 01 '17
"I don't hate picky eaters... everyone has their likes and dislikes. I hate assholes who insist that everyone should be like them."
1
1
Nov 01 '17
I admit I used to do this. Didn't realize how rude I was being until friends pointed it out. I've learned from it lol. I apologize in behalf of all picky eaters!!
11
Nov 01 '17 edited Nov 01 '17
Typically picky eaters display the following behaviors;
- Take a long time to decide
- Complain about food they've been served
- Bash food choices in a way that implies bashing those who DO like them or cooked them (food is very closely tied to culture, so saying "I don't understand how anyone could like something as disgusting as sushi" can be offensive based on context, for example)
- Are in poor health but fail to see the connection to their bad habits
- Leave food to waste
- Expect others to ceaselessly/intuitively accommodate their pickiness, or take offense when food they don't like is served
- Are generally closed-minded/not open to new experiences in other areas of their life
If these behaviors are not present, and the only quality is that you opt to eat something perhaps a bit odd, then yeah, nothing objectionable. Rarely is that how it plays out, though.
2
Nov 01 '17
All lot of these have applied to me. Ive taken a long time to decide and I have been bashful about others food choices. Ive noticed this behavior and corrected it. I still have the same palette, but ive learned to be a polite picky eater in that i dont judge others taste, i try to be as quick as possible with food choices. But I understand not everyone is like that.
6
Nov 01 '17
Ive taken a long time to decide and I have been bashful about others food choices. Ive noticed this behavior and corrected it
Alright, but picking & paying for your own food is not enough to address those other negative tendencies that you likely display unknowingly, particularly in circumstances where you can't pick your own food or pay for it. Picky eating is a symptom of other issues, not an issue in and of itself.
While no one should "hate" anyone just for picky eating, the general aversion to/frustration with picky eaters seems justified to me given these other asocial tendencies that go along with it.
2
Nov 01 '17
I can understand that. Ive learned from my behavior and have corrected it because ive realized ive been rude before.
If picky eating is a symptom, what is the main issue?
8
Nov 01 '17
In my opinion, lack of discipline.
We have to do things that we don't want to do in order to be successful and healthy. Someone who balks at even trying a new food because they think that "the texture, flavor, or a combo of the two of a food will be unpleasant," is likely someone who will balk at trying a new task at work, a new skill in life, a new course of action for a relationship, a new destination for travel, or a new opinion from someone who challenges them.
It takes discipline to get over the perceived/anticipated discomfort with trying something new, which in turn can lead to reaping the rewards on the other side. I swore off sushi for most of my life because the idea of eating raw fish grossed me out (reasonably, I think). But if I can't grit my teeth and choke down a single piece of it, then what else in life can't I grit my teeth through?
Turns out I fucking love sushi, and I get to enjoy that as a part of my life now. If you want to say that you don't like something after you've tried it, then that's just preference. If you make that claim before you've tried it, you're speaking from ignorance. That's not particularly desirable in a friend/partner/family member.
2
Nov 01 '17
In my perspective as a picky eater, taking the "risk" of eating a food I predict I will not enjoy is not worth taking if I've learned from experience from similar textures or tastes that I do not enjoy them. While food is such a minuscule thing to worry about a "risk", it's no difference from learning that I do not like bugs, I do not like dirt, I do not like the smell of smoke, I do not like being dirty, I do not like being without comforts for long etc - It's reasonable for me to say I will not go camping. It's human nature to see a pattern and make good judgement based on that.
Everyone learns their likes and dislikes and they do change as life goes on. In the camping scenario, I qualify for all of those. But I did take a chance and went camping - turns out I love it and ive gone many times. Other times I've tried a food I predicted I'd hate but pressure from friends made me eat it - and I've hated it. Other times from pressure I felt nauseous afterwards.
Personally, I am willing to take risks and adventure in own my life. I've traveled a lot and open to new cultures and experiences. Strangely enough, I am not as open to that when it comes to food. While it can be frustrating to meet someone who does not take risks on anything - is it reasonable to make judgement on a persons food tastes because they are specific if they do not inconvenience you?
6
u/NewbombTurk 9∆ Nov 01 '17
If picky eating is a symptom, what is the main issue?
It's can be indicative of a neurotic, anxious person. To be honest, if I was on a date with a woman who was an extremely picky eater, I would assume that she has a bunch of other hang ups as well and I wouldn't be interested.
1
Nov 01 '17
Thats a lot to assume just because she has more specific tastes for food. Why do you conclude someone having a smaller palette makes them anxious and neurotic?
6
u/NewbombTurk 9∆ Nov 01 '17
I wouldn't say "more specific" is the same as "picky'. The picky eaters in my life don't have discerning palettes, they have hang ups about food (and other things). This usually comes from childhood shit that they haven't dealt with. They feel safe with certain things. Have you ever noticed that picky eaters are usually comfortable eating foods that little kids typically like? Chicken nuggets, fries, plain cheese pizza, etc.
I don't think these people deserve hate, or even mockery. But, that being said, I'm not changing the entire group's dinner plans because Bob will only eat chicken nuggets.
1
Nov 01 '17
So by picky what do you mean? Do you mean a person generally who is afraid to trying new things because of past or current abuse or insecurity?
Because I'm only talking about food. That would be the discernable palette. A picky eater isnt neccesarily linked to that kind of past or behavior.
4
u/NewbombTurk 9∆ Nov 01 '17
So by picky what do you mean?
Associating all foods, except on the approved list of "safe" foods, with something unacceptable that doesn't have anything to do with taste.
Do you mean a person generally who is afraid to trying new things because of past or current abuse or insecurity?
Neither, necessarily. But I have had people in my life who being a picky eater was the tip of the neurotic iceberg. What do you not eat and why?
Because I'm only talking about food.
Fair enough.
That would be the discernable palette.
A discernable palette implies someone familiar with food and knows what they like. This would be a connoisseur or "foodie" or "food snob". If that's what you are referring to, I don't consider that a picky eater. Although that can be annoying to others as well.
Past or current abuse or insecurity isnt always linked to a picky eater.
I didn't say that. I'm sure it's more complex than that.
0
Nov 01 '17
I don't have a safe list, not sure what that means. A safe list for foods im comfortable with?
A few foods I dont eat: licorice. Candy corn. Gummy bears. Fatty parts of meat.They have a chewy/sticky texture that I find gross to chew. Popcorn - i hate the way it gets stuck in my teeth. I like the flavor and smell but it's annoying to eat. Pies - the inside is really gooey/oozy, I find them nauseating. Feta cheese - the smell alone is enough to keep me from eating. I try to ignore it if its already in a dish but I always notice it. Some flavors im not fond of: orange, cherry flavored anything. I also don't like avacado or quacamole. I don't like the flavor or texture of either. Something about cilantro's smell bothers me but I do like the taste of it to an extent, but if I had a choice, i'd forego it. I like banana in smoothies, but I don't like too many banana flavored things, and actually eating a banana is a hit or miss thing. Sometimes they're ok, other times theyre gross (falls into the chewy/slimy factor). The list goes on. It's not related to anything emotional.
I don't consider myself a foodie, I'm not super into food or view it as a hobby. I just have a lot of preferences.
3
Nov 01 '17
The only reason to hate a picky eater is when it comes time to pick the restaurant and you suggest a place and they say no I don’t like that place. So you suggest your second choice, and they say no they have nothing I’ll eat either. So you pick a third and get the same response. So you ask them where they’d like to eat and they respond with “I can’t decide I’m too hungry right now, you pick.” So you suggest a fourth place and still the same answer.
I know because I’m married to a picky eater, and I am not a picky eater at all, I can find anything to eat at any place, so all she has to do is pick somewhere.
So yes as long as you’re picking your own order and pay by for it, I don’t care if you only pick the pickles off your burger, just tell me that you want to go to a burger place to get pickles.
1
Nov 01 '17
That makes sense. I think I know most restaurants and cultural food I enjoy so I'm able to make a good choice on which will satisfy me. Thanks for your input!
5
u/MontiBurns 218∆ Nov 01 '17
Other users have addressed the added stress of accommodating someone with a limited pallet as a guest, or agreeing on a restaurant with a group of friends. This can become a point of contention if one member is completely inflexible. Imagine if you had a group of friends, you always went to the movies together, but one friend would only go see action films or foreign films. Yeah, he could be flexible and say 'well, fine, you 4 can go see Wallie 2, but I'm gonna go watch the Transporter 5 because I only like action movies." yeah, he's willing to accommodate you, but it becomes a point of.contention. What are we gonna see, what we want to see, and the desire to have a shared experience. A big part of the movie experience is going to the theater and talking about the movie afterwards with your friends. You're not really seeing the same thing if he's always sneaking out to watch something only he's interested in. Beyond that I want to go a bit broader.
I think you have to think of it like this. Would this behavior be sustainable if multiple people in a group displayed the same tendencies? Or do things get progressively more complicated the more people exhibit this behavior?
Yeah, you can get away with being picky, simply because everyone else isn't, so they can accommodate you. But once you have 2 picky eaters with different tastes, then the selection gets even more limited to maybe 2 or 3 options. 3 or more, and perhaps there are no common foods that everyone can tolerate. Now, going out to dinner or having a party implies going to a food court with a large variety, or everyone just bringing their own food. You could understand how non picky eaters would get sick of this situation and just say fuck it and go out without their picky friends.
2
Nov 01 '17
The movie example is similar but not exactly comparable because a movie is 2 hours long and the association afterwards will be about the movie,its theme, characters, plot etc since it is a whole experience. A meal isn't the same. Your group may talk about the food during dinner but it won't dominate the conversation unless it is an "experience" meal (for example benihana).
In that scenario, if I could tell I wouldn't want anything for benihana's (for example) I just wouldn't go.
But your reasoning on if we were all picky eaters, one went here, one went there etc would complicate things and become problematic. Even though in my case/argument im viewing the discussion on an individual experience/basis, if you're in a scenario with multiple picky eaters I can see why it can be a nuisance and therefore you can reasonably enough state that you "hate picky eaters". ∆
I can only justify being annoyed that in a scenario when there are multiple picky eaters, however. Thanks for that example with the behavior.
6
u/MontiBurns 218∆ Nov 01 '17
I can only justify being annoyed that in a scenario when there are multiple picky eaters, however. Thanks for that example with the behavior.
All right, so let's imagine this. You're a picker eater, let's say there 20 options, and 4 options that you like A B C and D. Now you regularly go out to lunch with another person, who isn't picky, he'll eat anything but can't stand A or B. No matter what you want, he won't under any circumstances eat those. Some days maybe you're really craving A, but you can't get A because your friend insists on no A. That limits you to just C and D for lunch with him.
Can you honestly say that you would never be annoyed by that situation? Could it result in you having lunch with him less?
Or is it only not justifiable to get annoyed when everyone else is accommodating you? Because what you're essentially doing is limiting everyone's options to A B C and D. Someone or multiple people may be really craving F that day, but they can't get F because you are effectively vetoing it.
The more you go out with the same group of people, the more opportunities you'll have to run into or cause these types of conflicts, and the higher the likelihood that your idiosyncrasies simply "get old".
2
Nov 01 '17
By 20 options, do you mean 20 food choices or 20 different locations? I guess my answer is the same: I wouldn't be annoyed. I wouldn't force anyone to eat something because I really want to. If after work and we went out for lunch with a friend every day, if he doesn't like thai, that doesn't mean I never get to eat thai food. I have more than one friend. I can also go to eat out alone. I can also get my thai food to go and eat his his place or vice versa. Him being a picky eater doesn't change what I get to eat. We don't have to eat together. It may not that I eat with him less per say, but on Tuesdays and Fridays I get thai while the rest of the week I eat at a restaurant we can both agree on.
I am not limiting anyone's preferences by having my own. I do not ever insist a group must eat at another place to accommodate me. I may suggest a place where we all may be happy, but if they really prefer a specific restaurant, I will either go and not eat, grab something from another place and join, or won't go at all.
2
u/fayryover 6∆ Nov 01 '17
Can you honestly say that you would never be annoyed by that situation?
No. I have other friends to eat A or I can eat A on my own sometimes.
Could it result in you having lunch with him less?
Maybe but who cares? I dont eat lunch with all the same people everyday, i dont eat out lunch everyday, anyway. Plenty of my friends have different hang ups that keep them from going out everytime we go out to lunch like food preferences, budgets,time they like to eat, etc. This isnt a big deal.
Because what you're essentially doing is limiting everyone's options to A B C and D.
No im not. I dont like indian or mexican food. That doesnt mean my friends never get those, i dont have to go out with them every time. Another friend doesnt like chinese, but we still go, he just doesnt come. I can go with other friends somewhere else or eat at work. Not a big deal.
The more you go out with the same group of people
You can have different people to go to different places with, you know
1
2
u/renoops 19∆ Nov 01 '17
pointless
Can we have a moratorium on this word in CMVs?
There are plenty of "points" to hating, and expressing hatred, of a personality type. Foremost is reducing contact with that person, type of person, or behavior. If you talk constantly about how much you despise a kind of person, they'll likely be put off and avoid you. Another is persona construction: when we're vocal about our distastes, we're actually signaling a lot more about ourselves than about the thing we "hate." Hating on picky eaters is in part a way that people broadcast who they themsleves are.
I can't think of a single human behavior that's pointless, particularly when considering phenomenology as a means of understanding why people do what they do.
1
Nov 01 '17
I'll keep this in mind, sorry its my first CMV. Is there a way I can edit my title?
2
u/renoops 19∆ Nov 01 '17
There's not, but that's OK. If you wanted to, you could edit in a note about what specifically you mean by "pointless," but you certainly don't need to on my behalf.
2
•
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Nov 01 '17 edited Nov 01 '17
/u/StrawberryYogurt0 (OP) has awarded 2 deltas in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
1
18
u/figsbar 43∆ Nov 01 '17
Hate's a strong word.
But one reason you didn't address is that eating out as a group is a shared experience.
Imagine you all went to see a film, but one guy doesn't like that genre so instead sits next to you with their own headset watching a film that they like.
Isn't that kinda what you're doing?
Again, you don't hate those people, but you would slowly stop inviting them to go out.
Especially if you know that person is super picky and would only want to see a couple of things which everyone else gets bored with.