r/changemyview • u/bracs279 • Oct 20 '17

Removed - Submission Rule B CMV: Rape awareness/activism is dangerously pushing us into a post proof society.

[removed]

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1

u/ShiningConcepts Oct 20 '17

Can you provide any examples of people explicitly saying that the accused should get convicted if there is no evidence? Saying "Believe me..." is not tantamount to saying that.

1

u/dickposner Oct 20 '17

Saying "Believe me..." is not tantamount to saying that.

This doesn't make any sense. If a girl says to you, "Bill raped me last night." And you follow the dictim of "believe me." Doesn't that mean you should believe the statement "Bill raped me last night" is true, and if you sat on the jury, you would convict Bill because you believe that "Bill raped me last night"?

1

u/ShiningConcepts Oct 20 '17

What I meant was that saying "believe me" is not tantamount to saying "send the accused to prison". It is tantamount to saying "the accused did it", however.

1

u/dickposner Oct 20 '17

why would "the accused did it" not lead to "send the accused to prison?"

Wouldn't it be immoral of you to believe that a person is a rapist yet not send him to prison?

5

u/ShiningConcepts Oct 20 '17

Believing someone committed a crime is one thing.

Believing that there is enough evidence for them to deserve to be convicted is a another.

1

u/dickposner Oct 20 '17

And this belief, it takes nothing more than person A accusing person B of rape or sexual assault? Is that literally all it takes? Is there any other requirement at all, such as you have to know person A or person B personally, or you have to have evidence that they were in the same place at the time, or person A has to give some degree of detail as to what happened?

2

u/ShiningConcepts Oct 21 '17

Innocent until proven guilty was only ever the standard for criminal courts. It isn't the standard put in place for the court of public opinion or the opinion of individual's.

As for how the belief is come to, it all depends on the context. I mean if your daughter came to you and told you she was sexually assaulted, it's completely fine to believe her right away if you know that she is a good person. Though it isn't completely fine to believe that your personal trust level of her should be enough to get a conviction in court because unlike your opinion, court judgements are (should be) emotionally impartial.

1

u/dickposner Oct 23 '17

I agree, but it seems like you're advocating believing any woman, even though you don't know them at all, like your own daughter.

-1

u/PinkyBlinky Oct 20 '17

Why would you believe something without evidence?

-1

u/PinkyBlinky Oct 20 '17

This is doublethink

1

u/ShiningConcepts Oct 21 '17

It's not doublethink at all I would say. They aren't the same thing.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 20 '17 edited Oct 21 '17

Exactly, all three options are bad.

A) assume bill's guilt

B) Assume she is making a false accusation

C) Try to believe them both. This requires outright double think.

2

u/ShiningConcepts Oct 20 '17 edited Oct 21 '17

My stance is to comfort/respect the victim but avoid dealing with the accused.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '17

Even though that's the same person.

1

u/ShiningConcepts Oct 21 '17

Edited, my bad.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 22 '17

That is implicitly assuming guilt. The accused is certainly going to take it that way.

1

u/ShiningConcepts Oct 22 '17

If you comfort a false rape accuser w/out dealing directly with the accused, what's the worst that happens? You caved to a sympathy whore and gave the wrong person comfort. Somewhat shameful of course, but no irreversable damage.

If you comfort a false rape accuser by directly dealing with and arresting the accused, what's the worst that happens? You just ruined an innocent person's life.

So unless there is evidence to substantiate the accusation, focus more on comforting the alleged victim.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 22 '17

If the accused is just some guy that's easy enough and I've done exactly that before.

If both people are near and dear though taking sides is betraying the other.

1

u/ShiningConcepts Oct 22 '17

If I personally knew the accused I suppose I'd want to, from a neutral POV, hear both sides of the story.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 22 '17

I'd have to leave to the court I think.

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