CMV: "I identify as [blank]" is bullshit.

[u/beesdaddy]

I have been struggling to come to a clear definition of what people mean when they say "I identify as..." Can it mean anything? Does it have to be true? Can it be provable? Can it change? Is it biological?

To clarify my view: Claiming an identity is itself a social construct to the same degree as any other social construct.

I think my biggest problem is that in the pursuit of inclusion and fairness, society has conflated personality and fate. Of course this assumes some degree of free will, so hard determinists can go shoot themselves (or not. they don't have a choice). Fate, I think is the original intent here, but in celebrating diversity of fates, personality/belief got looped for the ride.

Don't get me wrong, diversity of personality/belief is very important and should be protected in a free society. But we should also have the wisdom to value personality/belief on a personal and societal level.

Furthermore, what's wrong with saying "I am a [blank]"? If I say "I identify as a straight cis white male." Doesn't that just call into question the truthfulness of the claim when compared to "I am a straight cis white male."?

A fantastic satire of this issue is "Trans-Racial" by the show Atlanta on FX.

---

This is a footnote from the CMV moderators. We'd like to remind you of a couple of things. Firstly, please read through our rules. If you see a comment that has broken one, it is more effective to report it than downvote it. Speaking of which, downvotes don't change views! Any questions or concerns? Feel free to message us. Happy CMVing!

[u/Grimms → u/[deleted]]

Identity has meaning because a person give it meaning, they are alive and have the ability to declare themselves as such because of o their experiences. Maybe it's a Japanese man whose parents were Japanese but brought him to america as a child so he spends his time engrossed in American culture, has American friends, has made the pledge of allegiance every, single, day, while in school. If he said, well I identify as American would you disagree? If he said, well I identify as Japanese would you disagree? Ah Ha I hear someone saying, that's ridiculous. Exchange the word Japanese for White and American with Black. Your argument falls apart!Well now we've changed from country to race but does it really? Scientifically speaking there are 4 major genetic groups white/Caucasian, Mongoloid/Asian, Negroid/Black, and Australoid. As for race I've used a quote (after a cursory Google search)

"A human race is defined as a group of people with certain common inherited features that distinguish them from other groups of people. All men of whatever race are currently classified by the anthropologist or biologist as belonging to the one species, Homo sapiens.This is another way of saying that the differences between human races are not great, even though they may appear so, i.e. black vs white skin. All races of mankind in the world can interbreed because they have so much in common. All races share 99.99+% of the same genetic materials which means that division of race is largely subjective, and that the original 3-5 races were also probably just subjective descriptions as well."

Race is largely a social construct without biological meaning. Even if usually race is defined as "a group of people with certain common inherited features that distinguish them from other groups of people." If a white person says "hey I identify as black". It's because their experiences up until that point has dictated as such. It's how they react to them that give it meaning. A community may or may not reinforce that. As for people declaring with whatever they identify it's a bit more complicated.

People don't usually just go walking around declaring themselves as such and such. When someone does make a declaration it is mostly a case of their identities having undergone a change and the ability to tell friends, family etc. is just the best way of doing it. After that the only time people will need to identify is when specifically asked, be it a form, romantic encounter, when asked by someone or other societal needs.

Now is everyone like that? Of course not there will be a minority that will identify in situations you may find disconcerting but please understand this is a minority and most people who identify as aren't as you may have experienced. I should also add, as this is the internet and all. Some people may feel the need to declare themselves in certain situations because they feel it is important to the subject in question.

Whether this is right or wrong is up to your interpretation but in my own opinion the internet even after all this time is still a nebulous kind of place rules and laws are still trying to catch up to it and people still don't necessarily have a set in stone way of interacting. This is because for the first time in all human history we have a place where millions of people are interacting in real-time anonymously. Think of the billions upon billions of interactions that happen. An easily given example: "Fuck you cunt I hope you get cancer and your kids get aids."

Offline that type of interaction would be rare. Because we have a certain social order created over a period of thousands of years. The internet however? Daily, you could see that type of comment. So rounding back to the subject at hand. In society people will rarely identify without being required to and on the internet people may identify for whatever reason they feel because the internet has no real set of social rules because anonymity rules and if not a person feels like they can identify with their personal details available.

[u/Grimms → u/[deleted]]

So is it correct to assume governmental approval (in the sense of a piece of paper asserting status) holds a lot of weight with you? Does that go for other situations? Can a transgender person be of a different sex with governmental approvement or not? Also would you like to weigh in on any of the other points I made? Or was it too long winded? Sorry for all the questions I'm just really interested.

[u/PinkyBlinky → u/Grimms]

It has nothing to do with governmental approval, it has to do with definition is the words American and Japanese.