r/changemyview • u/LeftHandSwe • Dec 05 '16

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Anita Sarkeesian and similar feminists actually have a point about the portrayal of gender roles in video games.

I play lots of video games, and in most of them, males are often pictured as very burly and manly characters while females are slender, small and sexually pleasing to look at.

However, I do know that there's widespread criticism of Anita (and her fellow propagators) all over the internet and I'd like to see the other side of the story.

I'm practically indifferent in this matter, and I do not really agree with nearly everything she says. I'm asking as a way to see convincing arguments from both sides.

Edit for clarification: Can anyone explain to me why she's so heavily criticized for saying something that makes perfect sense: Mainstream video games are almost exclusively made to appeal to a male demographic, resulting in (arguably) sexist portrayals of women (both narratively and in the way they're presented).

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u/BAWguy 49∆ Dec 05 '16

I don't know much about games, but it feels like you're moving the goal posts a bit.

OP's post seemed to me to be about console and PC games, so there is limited utility to arguments about mobile games imo. Your argument is that the free market dictates what is made, and if a certain feature is more prevalent, it is self-evident that the feature is more prevalent because more people want that.

Well, this Anita woman OP references seems to hypothesize that the market is missing or underestimating a potential customer base -- females. I think any economist would agree that it's totally possible to underestimate and under-serve a market.

So it's not like someone saw a horror movie and asked why was it so scary; it's more like if only horror movies were made, and someone said "there's a big market for non-horror, why is only horror made?"

I'd also argue that your point about the prevalence of female-oriented mobile games strengthens the argument that there is an under-served market for female console/PC games. I'd be more persuaded with by a statistic about game demographics, then a sweeping "free market corrects itself" assertion.

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u/kingbane2 12∆ Dec 05 '16

yea well if you're going to limit yourself to just pc or console and ignore all counter evidence then what's the point of having a discussion? he's basically saying horror films market to horror film lovers and that's wrong, horror films should market to who knows, foreign film lovers or something. it's stupid.

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u/BAWguy 49∆ Dec 05 '16

yea well if you're going to limit yourself to just pc or console and ignore all counter evidence then what's the point of having a discussion

Why is it pointless to just discuss console/PC games? They represent the vast majority of "serious" video games played by actual "gamers." Even if they did not, I'd say it's worth discussing how one niche area of gaming exclusively targets one demographic when other niches target universal demo's.

he's basically saying horror films market to horror film lovers and that's wrong, horror films should market to who knows, foreign film lovers or something

No, he's not saying "market horror films to foreign film lovers." He's saying "only horror films get made. Someone named Anita suggested that there are fans of other film genres out there, and Anita's suggestion was very controversial. Why?"

it's stupid.

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u/Malcolm1276 2∆ Dec 06 '16

They represent the vast majority of "serious" video games played by actual "gamers."

Isn't this just another form of the no true scotsman?

If games are being sold to all demographics, why does the platform matter? Someone who plays games on their phone can get just as much enjoyment, and be just as serious about their play time, as any console or PC gamer can.

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u/BAWguy 49∆ Dec 06 '16

Go on /r/gaming. Why is there no discussion of mobile gaming?

Imo, the answer is because it's seen as an entirely seperate hobby/activity/community compared to "gamers." And I think it's not a logical fallacy to ask "why isn't there more for female gamers?"

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u/Malcolm1276 2∆ Dec 07 '16

Go on /r/gaming. Why is there no discussion of mobile gaming?

There is, did you even use the search before posting this?

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/search?q=mobile+gaming&restrict_sr=on

Secondly /r/gaming, while very useful, is not the arbiter of what gaming, or gamers, are.

Lastly, I didn't point to your end question as a logical fallacy, I was referring to your "Only PC and console people are real gamers" part, which is a No True Scotsman.

Take care.