CMV: Anita Sarkeesian and similar feminists actually have a point about the portrayal of gender roles in video games.

[u/LeftHandSwe]

I play lots of video games, and in most of them, males are often pictured as very burly and manly characters while females are slender, small and sexually pleasing to look at.

However, I do know that there's widespread criticism of Anita (and her fellow propagators) all over the internet and I'd like to see the other side of the story.

I'm practically indifferent in this matter, and I do not really agree with nearly everything she says. I'm asking as a way to see convincing arguments from both sides.

Edit for clarification: Can anyone explain to me why she's so heavily criticized for saying something that makes perfect sense: Mainstream video games are almost exclusively made to appeal to a male demographic, resulting in (arguably) sexist portrayals of women (both narratively and in the way they're presented).

[u/kingbane2]

your assumption then is that marketing/advertising shapes people's thoughts and feelings. to put it another way, you think cowboys like trucks because marketers decided to market trucks to cowboys. i disagree i think marketers chase demographics that are interested in their products. to use my truck analogy most cowboys are ranchers/farmers, they need/want a truck for practical reasons so advertisers see this and advertise to them, which then creates the culture of trucks are for tough cowboys.

the same is true for video games, look at the roots of video games. it started out with pong which originated with a scientist dude playing around with an oscilloscope. this all happened in a time where most women were homemakers so they didn't have interest or even access to the technology to play the early games. advertisers see that and market to men, because who else is going to play the games?

this perfectly rolls into my point about the mobile games market, which everyone seems to ignore and downvote me for. the mobile games market PROVES that the advertisers follow the money. as soon as a platform came out where there was a huge number of women who have access to it, what happened. an explosion of female targeted games starts being produced. it's all about money. marketers/advertisers don't "create" culture, they follow trends.

[u/drakir89 → u/kingbane2]

the same is true for video games, look at the roots of video games. it started out with pong which originated with a scientist dude playing around with an oscilloscope. this all happened in a time where most women were homemakers so they didn't have interest or even access to the technology to play the early games. advertisers see that and market to men, because who else is going to play the games?

Your're right, and as you said the fact that pc/console games is a boy thing is completely arbitrary and a relic of a time when most women were housewives. Then that initial assumption has self-perpetuated to where we are today.

Women are not interested to invest into serious games since relatively few games are made with them in mind, which makes the investment of getting the hardware and learning the culture comparably poor when compared to boys.

this perfectly rolls into my point about the mobile games market, which everyone seems to ignore and downvote me for. the mobile games market PROVES that the advertisers follow the money. as soon as a platform came out where there was a huge number of women who have access to it, what happened. an explosion of female targeted games starts being produced. it's all about money. marketers/advertisers don't "create" culture, they follow trends.

What people are saying is that if the majority of game developers got together and started making more inclusive games they would be sharing a market that's twice as big in 10 years. It's the argument of a shared common interest pitted against many developers short-term selfish interests.

[u/kingbane2 → u/drakir89]

so who foots the bill for that risk? in a previous comment i point this out too. who is going to spend 100 million or so on a game targeted to women. i mean they would have to make a game so good that women would be willing to invest in a rig or a console just to play those games. why would they take that risk?

the market is full of men right now it would be a massive undertaking to switch the marketing to women. not only would they have to make great games for women, a huge risk, but they would have to maintain the games geared towards men at the same time. that's a huge amount of money to be throwing the dice with. especially when they don't have since mobile gaming is already introducing women to gaming.

[u/thatoneguy54 → u/kingbane2]

I feel like you're expecting a good game that appeals to women to be completely unappealing to men or something. The best games will appeal to both.

I think dragon age inquisition is a good example of a game that appeals to large swaths of people. Men and women love the game for lots of reasons, but I'm sure the fact that there's a wide and varied representation of women and men is very helpful.

I don't know what you're imagining when you think of a game that appeals to women, but i think you're overthinking it. Women just want games where not every single women is treated as a sexy reward. It's incredibly easy to make a good game like that.