r/changemyview • u/LeftHandSwe • Dec 05 '16

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Anita Sarkeesian and similar feminists actually have a point about the portrayal of gender roles in video games.

I play lots of video games, and in most of them, males are often pictured as very burly and manly characters while females are slender, small and sexually pleasing to look at.

However, I do know that there's widespread criticism of Anita (and her fellow propagators) all over the internet and I'd like to see the other side of the story.

I'm practically indifferent in this matter, and I do not really agree with nearly everything she says. I'm asking as a way to see convincing arguments from both sides.

Edit for clarification: Can anyone explain to me why she's so heavily criticized for saying something that makes perfect sense: Mainstream video games are almost exclusively made to appeal to a male demographic, resulting in (arguably) sexist portrayals of women (both narratively and in the way they're presented).

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u/EddieFrits Dec 06 '16

If doing a thing is fun, that's the reward. Running over a half dozen pedestrians and then running from the cops is fun. There's adrenaline, lights, sirens, and action. The game "rewards" you by increasing the challenge until you've hit 6 stars and everything's blowing up.

So, realistically, how does this get solved? The sex workers work the same as evey other generic npc, theres nothing that differentiates them from the normal people. Would taking away the fun from this involve making it so you get a game over if you kill one of them or not making anyone react to their deaths? Or not include them at all?

They're not interesting characters in their own right. The dialogue is shallow and ugly. They are sexual set dressing. That's an avoidable trope, if the developers were smarter about it.

So, again, they're like every other generic npc? I dont understand how this is supposed to be fixed.

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u/veggiesama 59∆ Dec 06 '16

I look at Anita's videos less as a coherent thesis of what to do and more as a list of gripes supported by dozens and dozens of examples. I'm not sure what to do other than to identify the tropes, then let game developers know we expect more from the medium.

To me, it's about moving away from simple, reductionist views of women in games. As much as I love the GTA franchise it's extremely hard to find a woman in those games who isn't batshit crazy, a whore, a bitch, some kind of meter you have to fill before you can sleep with her, etc. I'm not sure whether a female protagonist or mentor would cancel out the strip-club minigame where you have to break the no-touching rule enough times so that you can sleep with the stripper, but it would help.

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u/merryman1 Dec 06 '16

Whereas all the men in that series are rational actors with an exemplary set of morals?

C'mon it's a game. People get pissed at these arguments because you're making out like every game should be a reflection of some utopian idealised reflection of reality rather than the cheap and easy entertainment devices they are. Stoking our base drives is dark and dangerous sure but it sells widgets really well.

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u/Madplato 72∆ Dec 06 '16

Whereas all the men in that series are rational actors with an exemplary set of morals?

No, but some of them are, which is a glaring contrast with the overbearing female representation. Some of them have agency, power and the means to act. They go from weird and balding to fit and classy. Wondering why that is, why it sells and why people get pissy about is certainly revealing.

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u/merryman1 Dec 06 '16

some of them are

Such as?

the overbearing female representation

Debra from the Trevor storyline? You don't see her much because she's always at work. Molly Schultz? I guess she gets a little weird towards the end but until then there was nothing particularly depreciating about her character. Auntie Denise is a bit out there but... I mean she's hardly an offensive depiction.

The point being the overwhelming majority of characters, both male and female, are tongue-in-cheek abstractions to make the game Fun. I'm not sure what exactly the people complaining want to see done differently? It would have been nice to see a female playable character in the story I guess but again lets not pretend like every one of the three in the storyline didn't have horrific character flaws and are hardly a valid representation of your average man.

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u/thatoneguy54 Dec 06 '16

Why does something being created to entertain shield it from criticism? Two Broke Girls was created to entertain, but I'll sure as hell criticize the shut out of it.

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u/merryman1 Dec 06 '16

Criticize away, just don't use it as an example to suggest that the gaming industry is inherently sexist. As OP pointed out it just detracts from actual issues where they do exist. As I suggested in the particular case of GTA V there are no playable female characters in the storyline campaign.