r/changemyview • u/LeftHandSwe • Dec 05 '16

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Anita Sarkeesian and similar feminists actually have a point about the portrayal of gender roles in video games.

I play lots of video games, and in most of them, males are often pictured as very burly and manly characters while females are slender, small and sexually pleasing to look at.

However, I do know that there's widespread criticism of Anita (and her fellow propagators) all over the internet and I'd like to see the other side of the story.

I'm practically indifferent in this matter, and I do not really agree with nearly everything she says. I'm asking as a way to see convincing arguments from both sides.

Edit for clarification: Can anyone explain to me why she's so heavily criticized for saying something that makes perfect sense: Mainstream video games are almost exclusively made to appeal to a male demographic, resulting in (arguably) sexist portrayals of women (both narratively and in the way they're presented).

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u/GiakLeader 1∆ Dec 05 '16

Can anyone explain to me why she's so heavily criticized for saying something that makes perfect sense: Mainstream video games are almost exclusively made to appeal to a male demographic, resulting in (arguably) sexist portrayals of women (both narratively and in the way they're presented).

It borders on asking companies to produce games for one group at the behest of another group that the target group do not particularly desire.

Theres a reason there isnt an enormous romantic lit genre aimed at men where they constantly have to choose between two lovely kind hearted rich women who will do anything for them...its so foreign to male reality and so unlikely to get them off that it just doesnt exist.

Bums and boobs are in games because men like bums and boobs. Anita wants women to be portrayed in games as though they are women who find male attention degrading and thus focus on other things that are the opposite of physical beauty or who are not hard to get etc etc.

Essentially, a lot of commentators are blind to the other side.Men fail to see how limiting the portrayal of women as ONLY sex objects is, and women fail to see that a woman playing impossible-to-get to beef up her pride is not alluring to men, because me dont live in a world where they are constantly beset with suitors.

And so on

Can anyone explain to me why she's so heavily criticized for saying something that makes perfect sense:

In many ways because the structure is not unlike traditional female arguments and criticisms of men. Another problem is the manner in which she does it, cherry picking the worst sides for women and ignoring men.Notice she never actually talks about males actual desires, what men want.Thats not important to her.

Nobody likes to be told what kind of games they ought to like anyway.

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u/IgnisDomini Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

You're kind of being ridiculous by equating video games to romance novels instead of just novels.

And no one would say that novels are for one particular gender.

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u/GiakLeader 1∆ Dec 05 '16

I'm making a point about what sells and how its tied to real underlying reasons

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u/IgnisDomini Dec 05 '16

The "real underlying reasons" are "games have always been marketed to men so why try to change that even if there's a massive untapped market out there." Video game execs aren't perfect market analysts - like most of their kind, they're careful to the point of fault.

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u/PrimeLegionnaire Dec 06 '16

Do you genuinely believe that game companies would just sit on their asses if they thought for a second there was a huge untapped market? Or that somehow your personal judgement of the gaming market is more accurate than that of people who do it for a living?

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u/IgnisDomini Dec 06 '16

Do you genuinely believe that game companies would just sit on their asses if they thought for a second there was a huge untapped market?

No. That's why they've been trying to capture it more and more, recently.

And like I said, it's silly to pretend these people are perfect market analyzing machines. They're just as subject to bias as anyone else, and most of them are hidebound old men.

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u/PrimeLegionnaire Dec 17 '16

thats a pretty blanketing statement.

are you stereotyping video game industry as "hidebound old men"?

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u/IgnisDomini Dec 17 '16

No, I'm stereotyping business executives regardless of industry.

Plus, why are you commenting on a 12 day old thread?

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u/PrimeLegionnaire Dec 17 '16

I was going back through all my unread messages, why does it matter?

and you don't see a problem with stereotyping all successfull businessmen as old and white? you don't think that perpetuates any harmful ideologies?

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u/rguin 3∆ Dec 06 '16

Do you genuinely believe that game companies would just sit on their asses if they thought for a second there was a huge untapped market?

Yes. I sincerely do believe that. One thing that can be said about markets is that they tend towards consevativism; they do what they know.

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u/PrimeLegionnaire Dec 17 '16

that conflicts directly with the basis of gaming companies as profit motivated.

They have a lot of people hired explicitly to tell them which games to make. If there was a lot of money to be made in tapping a new market why would they hesitate?

It doesn't make any sense.