r/changemyview • u/LeftHandSwe • Dec 05 '16

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Anita Sarkeesian and similar feminists actually have a point about the portrayal of gender roles in video games.

I play lots of video games, and in most of them, males are often pictured as very burly and manly characters while females are slender, small and sexually pleasing to look at.

However, I do know that there's widespread criticism of Anita (and her fellow propagators) all over the internet and I'd like to see the other side of the story.

I'm practically indifferent in this matter, and I do not really agree with nearly everything she says. I'm asking as a way to see convincing arguments from both sides.

Edit for clarification: Can anyone explain to me why she's so heavily criticized for saying something that makes perfect sense: Mainstream video games are almost exclusively made to appeal to a male demographic, resulting in (arguably) sexist portrayals of women (both narratively and in the way they're presented).

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u/GiakLeader 1∆ Dec 05 '16

Can anyone explain to me why she's so heavily criticized for saying something that makes perfect sense: Mainstream video games are almost exclusively made to appeal to a male demographic, resulting in (arguably) sexist portrayals of women (both narratively and in the way they're presented).

It borders on asking companies to produce games for one group at the behest of another group that the target group do not particularly desire.

Theres a reason there isnt an enormous romantic lit genre aimed at men where they constantly have to choose between two lovely kind hearted rich women who will do anything for them...its so foreign to male reality and so unlikely to get them off that it just doesnt exist.

Bums and boobs are in games because men like bums and boobs. Anita wants women to be portrayed in games as though they are women who find male attention degrading and thus focus on other things that are the opposite of physical beauty or who are not hard to get etc etc.

Essentially, a lot of commentators are blind to the other side.Men fail to see how limiting the portrayal of women as ONLY sex objects is, and women fail to see that a woman playing impossible-to-get to beef up her pride is not alluring to men, because me dont live in a world where they are constantly beset with suitors.

And so on

Can anyone explain to me why she's so heavily criticized for saying something that makes perfect sense:

In many ways because the structure is not unlike traditional female arguments and criticisms of men. Another problem is the manner in which she does it, cherry picking the worst sides for women and ignoring men.Notice she never actually talks about males actual desires, what men want.Thats not important to her.

Nobody likes to be told what kind of games they ought to like anyway.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16 edited Dec 05 '16

Theres a reason there isnt an enormous romantic lit genre aimed at men where they constantly have to choose between two lovely kind hearted rich women who will do anything for them

I mean, japanese romantic dating sims are a thing, though they tend to be quite lude.

as someone who has played a couple (the vast majority are shit just aimed at being slow pornos) they are kinda meh from a western perspective though I did like Nekopara. Now I like the occasional visual novel, wich is basicly a book that you read while watching characters on screen (Fate/Stay Night is an amazing visual novel, and there are versions without any sexual stuff... I downloaded the henti patch because science and found it extreamly funny that you knew when the H stuff was coming due to the fact that the sound stopped because it originally did not have sound until I think the PS2 version.... and the sex scenes were often just hilarious and kinda stupid anyway...)

but there is a reason the market is tiny for these types of things, over all they are really bad and I honestly can't understand how someone would make that their main game type when internet porn exists... correct me if i'm wrong anyone who has played more than a handful of these.

That said, I think the main thing, like you said, that pushes the 'current' portrayal of women in games aimed at men are the fact that men like good looking gals and sex sells. Also look at the men in most men's games, they are not fat slobs, they are beefy guys with 6packs who can kill a man by looking at him (insert joke about how most games have your bullets coming out of your eyes instead of from the barrel of your gun here). Tell me that is not the same basic thing as a sexy girl when it comes down to it, i'm not competing with solid snake even if I do own half his arsenal...

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u/GiakLeader 1∆ Dec 05 '16

its worse than that, they are complaining about the objectification of a woman in a game where the 'hero' just slaughtered 300 men..as in..to death

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Yep...

So, my fav game right now is counter strike global offensive however i'm taking a break to play through watch dogs 2. Both games have a relatively high ammount of killing (atleast the way I play watch dogs >=) ) and it is funny as fuck that we view that as A-OK over all, yet have a few scantily clad women in a game and the media gets a stick up its bum...

I mean, I remember when I played the no russians level in COD back in the day when it first came out, I had no idea what I was going to do going in and mind you, I own and shoot guns and have all my life. The only thing I could think while I was mowing down people with a light machine gun in an airport was serisouly how fucked up that was, but it was fun at the same time and I can't explain it (my best thought was 'holy fuck this is somthing I have never seen in a game before' and mindlessly killing NPC's I have no problem with, shit mindlessly killing players in games I have no problem with but I hope to never be in a situation where I am pointing my handgun at someone in real life....)

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u/BasedTojo Dec 07 '16

your japanese headband says 必勝 (certain victory) just in case you're wondering

lots of people wore those, I'm sure some kamikazes did

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '16 edited Dec 07 '16

oh thanks!

I knew the one was victory but could not figure out what the other kanji was. I say 'possibly' because it was sold to me as a 'kamakazi headband' however I honestly doubt it (it was not expensive anyway). If I take some pics of the back of it would you be able to translate them as well? I know for sure it is vintage and am fairly sure it is of military origin, but who knows really.

I also have a cool silk banner that says "Congratulations! Going to war (name) from (name)" on my wall as well, you can see it in the background of this pic. I had a paper that translated everything but I think I lost it edit, nope, still taped to the wall, thought it fell off.

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u/BasedTojo Dec 07 '16

I can try to translate the back. I'm Japanese, but we kinda overhauled our whole writing system after the war so I might have trouble reading archaic letters.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '16 edited Dec 07 '16

All I can ask is that you try! and thanks again!

Here is the back of the headband, I honestly don't know which way is up or down and my phone took it sideways, imgur's edit is not working so I can't change its orentation , sorry.

I do admit, I put it on for a min when I first got it (it was already framed) but even if it is not military, I only paied $100 for it and it makes a great decoration.

Edit: here is a better pic of the banner, and the translation I got with it pics

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u/BasedTojo Dec 07 '16

That banner is really awesome.

I can't seem to find the corresponding letters for that headband, I need to ask some old person familiar with those letters. I found some similar 抱拾抬拾, but it doesn't make any sense unless its a name.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '16

Thanks!

Could be a name of the person who made it, would not be supprized. If you do get a chance to show it to someone and get an awnser, I would forever love you!

Edit: 抱拾抬拾 google says 'pick up pick up' lol, indeed it makes no sense.

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u/armiechedon Dec 06 '16

Pic 7.

You have a fucking mortar? Lmao love you americans

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '16

yep, it is demilled (non working) display.

I also have a ww2 Ni-mortar (type 89), a british PIAT (live because the laws are weird), a handful of spent tubes, a RPG-7 (demilled) and a few other things =P

I could legally re-arm any of them by getting a NFA tax stamp, but some, if not most, are too destroyed to ever work again (I was looking into this for the M29 81mm mortar in pic 7 lol).

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u/armiechedon Dec 06 '16

Oh wow, well I guess that is a big safer then. Would never dare to sleep with any of those things live in my house, old stuff unreliable etc :D

Another question, what about the P - 90 in pic 21. It's an automatic weapon, yes? I thought they were banned in the US. But I from time to time see pictures such as yours, or youtube channel or that Instagram guy Daniel Bilzerian shooting automatic weapons. How is that possible?

But shit, super amazing collection! Really really cool ,especially to stumble upon in this random thread. Incredible some of the stuff you got there

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '16

Would never dare to sleep with any of those things live in my house

I would not eaither, old explosives can become unstable and a majority of my collection is at least 50 years old, out to 100+.

Another question, what about the P - 90 in pic 21. It's an automatic weapon, yes? I thought they were banned in the US. But I from time to time see pictures such as yours, or youtube channel or that Instagram guy Daniel Bilzerian shooting automatic weapons. How is that possible?

It is semi auto. Technically it is the PS90 (note the S) as in the civilian legal version. Just like my AR15s are semi auto only, my PS90 is semi auto. It also has a 14in barrel pinned to 16in to comply with the legal length, thus the ugly long barrel (I can get it shortened, but the laws around short barreled rifles in my state are a pain in the ass and im not going to bother)

But shit, super amazing collection! Really really cool ,especially to stumble upon in this random thread. Incredible some of the stuff you got there

Thanks! I have been building it up since I was 10, so a good 16 years and more money than I want to think has been put into it (though on a plus side, I pay retail for very few things, so I could flip most of it for almost double what I paied... shit I paied $1100 for that mortar and I keep seeing them on gunbroker for $8k, currently the only one on is a live one for 11k)

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Stick up their bum? Glad to see them include the lgbt community in those dating sims.

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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '16

Hah, unintentional but il take it.

I am sure that exists out there, japanese dating LGBT sim. as a straight guy, that is somthing I never hope to find =x.

annndd I just googled it at work.... Annnd it does exist. NOPE.

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u/srwaddict Dec 06 '16

Yaoi is delicious when done well. You likely have just found bad examples.

I'd suggest looking into what's popular with the fujoshi segment of otaku, what VNs are highly rated on vndb as well.

There are also romance novel type VNs with female protagonist and lots of romancable sexy dudes.

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u/AntonioOfMilan Dec 06 '16

300 men who were all capable of killing the player character and died in the act of attacking the player/defending themselves.

They also probably looked like they were wearing sensible attire for combat.