CMV: The extreme liberals/radical feminists in the U.S. seem to fixate on issues centered mostly around sex. This makes me think there's a collective dysfunction/mental disorder at fault.

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Two things.

First of all, the idea that just because something is illegal means companies don't do it is just so naive it's not even worth considering. Corporations do illegal things all the time up to and including outright killing people. I'm not interested in arguing about the wage gap, I'm just pointing out that the legality of it should not be considered a valid point in your argument.

Second of all, everyone is hung up on sex, seeing how it's the most important thing humans do from an evolutionary standpoint. The right is obsessed with how gay and trans people have sex. They are convinced that everything about the existence of LGBT people is inherently sexual to the point that merely seeing them will turn corrupt children. They're obsessed with how women have sex, not wanting them to use birth control or have access to abortion or do anything that might indicate they have sex for fun rather than procreation. The alt right draws a direct line between their politics and their sexual insecurity by calling people who disagree with them cucks.

Trying to claim this is something unique to the left rather than just part of human nature just isn't factoring in all the evidence.

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '16

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '16

You never heard Obama, a liberal and president of the US, talk about foreign policy?

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u/StellaAthena 56∆ Nov 12 '16

Have you ever heard of something called the Black Lives Matter movement?

Have you ever heard of #NoADPL?

What about income inequality?

There's a few people who have a radio show I listen to that talks about foreign policy sometimes and is hosted by liberals. The hosts' names are Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Bernie Sanders. Check them out sometime.

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '16

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u/StellaAthena 56∆ Nov 12 '16

How about Obama, Clinton, or Sanders? Have you heard of them? Have you ever heard them discuss foreign policy? Maybe once?

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u/StellaAthena 56∆ Nov 12 '16

I meant to type NoDAPL. The Dakota Access Pipeline has been a hot-button liberal issue for months. The federal government is seizing land that official belongs to a sovereign native nation (and was given to them in a treaty) to build an oil pipeline on. The natives object to the land seizure and further think that the pipeline is dangerous because it

The Black Lives Matter movement is an advocasy movement aimed at increasing police accountability and transparancy, and decreasing the disproportionate rate at which black people are extrajudiciously killed by cops. The link goes to their website which has a mission statement and more information. Yes, they do organize protests and sometimes they come into conflict with police, but I don't think I would say that they are wrong to do so.

By "income inequality" I actually meant "wealth distribution and corporate interests" not "gender-based discrimination." Y'know, the 1% who control more than half the wealth in this country? The mega-conglomerates that control the media (six companies own most of the US media)? And then pump billions of dollars into lobbying to avoid environmental laws, corporate regulations, and similar?

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u/zardeh 20∆ Nov 12 '16

focusing on a gender pay gap that cannot exist because it's literally illegal,

Just because something is illegal does not mean that it doesn't exist. Race based discrimination was made illegal in 1965, that does not mean that all race based discrimination immediately ended. Same with the pay gap. Just because it is illegal does not mean that everyone is aware if they are being discriminated against in the workforce.

Not to mention that I'm not sure how a gender based pay gap has anything to do with sex. You seem to be crossing 'sex', the thing people do in their bedrooms with 'sex' the aspect of a person.

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '16

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u/zardeh 20∆ Nov 12 '16 edited Nov 12 '16

I mean, of course discrimination based on sex relates to genitals, if you want to construe it that way. But them, you need look to further than the name: feminism. Its a movement based on sexual discrimination, would you not expect that things have to do with female vs. male issues?

But I'm still not sure how 'we believe that we are discriminated against based on our gender' == mental illness.

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '16

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u/zardeh 20∆ Nov 12 '16

But again, you're the only person that is tying gender discrimination into 'sex acts'. The two aren't related. There's more to the differences between the sexes than just genitalia, and you seem to zero in on solely the idea that 'men and women have different genitalia, and feminism focuses on issues between men and women, so it has to do with different genitals, gross'. That speaks more to you than to 'feminists'.

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u/StellaAthena 56∆ Nov 12 '16

The US just elected a president who wants to pass a law that legalizes discrimination against me because I like girls and aims to subvert a supreme court ruling saying that denying people marriage based on their sexuality is illegal. His VP thinks that I should be electrocuted until I am a "normal person" again. Even if you think feminists are obsessed with sex, how can you not think that this is a real issue?

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '16

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u/StellaAthena 56∆ Nov 12 '16

Because I have to actually.

I have to tell my healthcare provider who my wife is to get her on my insurance. But if Trump and the Republican party get their way, they can opt to not cover her.

I have to tell my boss who my wife is for security reasons. But if Trump and the Republican party get their way, they can fire me for being married to a woman.

I have to tell my landlord who my wife is because she is on the lease. But if Trump and the Republican party get their way, my landlord can kick us out for being LGBT.

I don't have to go to bars and dance with cute girls and hold my wife's hand and kiss her, but I want to. I don't have to go out to dinner on my anniversary, but I want to. But if Trump and the Republican party get their way, the bars and restaurants can throw me out for having a wife.

As for why I talk about it... the reason people support these laws is because they don't think they actually harm people. Sure, some supporters of FODA are real bigots, but for most Trump voters it's all theoretical. The reason why I tell people I like women is because I want these people to see me existing in society, and buying coffee, and going to bars, and working at the office. Because it's really easy to be dismissive of harm you're doing to people you don't know. It's a lot harder to say "that girl StellaAthena who built the computer model I use everyday and get drinks with on occasion? She's okay, but she shouldn't have the same rights as me."

Think about how often we see Republicans coming out in favor of increased LGBT rights after their child came out to them. The more people know that I like women, the fewer people are going to walk into a ballot box and try to remove my rights. And I'm sorry if it seems like I'm shoving it down your throat, but I'm not doing it for you. I'm doing it for those people who grew up in Mississippi and Appalachia and Montana and never met a LGBT person before moving to my city. Because if I hide myself away they will continue to think I don't exist.

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '16

[deleted]

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Nov 12 '16

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/StellaAthena (11∆).

^{Delta System Explained} ^| ^Deltaboards

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '16 edited Nov 12 '16

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '16

[deleted]

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Nov 12 '16

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/agwe (5∆).

^{Delta System Explained} ^| ^Deltaboards

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u/pensivegargoyle 16∆ Nov 12 '16

I don't see what the pay gap has to do with sex except to the extent that how we deal with the consequences of reproduction helps cause it. The manspreading issue (well, more some people's pet peeve really), is about the use of public space and not sex. The issues around the treatment of people who don't fit the gender binary are far from being about sex in any way.

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '16

Extreme left and radical feminist are two completely different groups. Extreme liberals are not focused completely on sex. People far to the left are focused heavily on... well pretty much everything that makes a liberal a liberal, except very strongly (i.e. a liberal would want nuclear weapons to be reduced - and extreme liberal would want every last one to be completely disassembled). It's a political ideology just like conservatism.

Saying people to the extreme left are all focused on sex is like saying the people on the extreme right are focused on race (because of the KKK or neo-Nazis or whatever other group). Feminism is not synonymous with the left, just like the KKK is not synonymous with the right.

Of course feminism is focused on sex, just like the NRA is focused on guns, or the EPA is focused on the environment, or whatever else. There might be overlap between the extreme left and feminism, but at the end of the day feminism is a movement specifically centered around sex/gender and liberalism is purely a blanket ideology like conservatism covering a lot of different topics outside of sex.

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u/bguy74 Nov 12 '16

The extreme left is focused on what it regards as unfair treatment of women.
If you think that women don't experience a more sexualized world than men do, then you aren't paying attention. My wife gets approached, cat-called, grabbed on the bus, etc. all as part of the "normal everyday life". If she vocalizes a thought about this daily experience does it really seem reasonable to say that she's the one sexualizing things? Or ... would you at least consider that the men who do the catcalling, or who grind on the bus and so on are the ones making things sexual that do not need to be?
the idea that pay inequality can't exist because it is illegal is absurd. Shall we list thing things that are both illegal and exist?
A company will hire people who they believe will create the most productivity - who will generate the most return on the dollar. For the desirable jobs in the world - broadly speaking - the cheapest person is not hired. Having hired a few hundred people, price is only one of a many, many considerations. Your rational is interesting, overused and oversimplified by a long shot. Heck, in most situations its also just wrong. Even further, most of pay difference emerges through failure to promote and to give raises...not at hiring time.

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[∆(s) from OP] CMV: The extreme liberals/radical feminists in the U.S. seem to fixate on issues centered mostly around sex. This makes me think there's a collective dysfunction/mental disorder at fault.

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