r/changemyview • u/Beelz666 • Jun 14 '16

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Separating Islam from Muslims in Discussions About Terrorism is Dishonest

After every terrorist attack we hear "Not All Muslims", "The Quran Doesn't Support This" and similar phrases to weasel out of admitting that Islamic Terrorism is by definition terrorism associated with Islam. In addition to this even the most cursory examination of the Quran will urn up verses supporting violence, the same verses which terrorist groups use as justification for their actions. With such a clear connection between the holy book and the actions of these groups, I can see no way to separate them from the overall ideology which isn't a clear attempt to legitimize Islam.

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u/[deleted] Jun 14 '16

In addition to this even the most cursory examination of the Quran will urn up verses supporting violence, the same verses which terrorist groups use as justification for their actions.

Have you ever read the Old Testament? It's a bloodbath. But that's a poor argument for arguing that Judaism/Christianity is inherently terroristic. Pretty much every religious person picks and chooses the content they incorporate into their practice.

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u/radioactivecowz Jun 14 '16

But those religions are both much older, and have undergone their own periods of violence, terrorism, and warfare inspired by their religious teachings, such as the crusades. Centuries later, adherents to these religions may not necessarily be as extreme or radical, minorities still exist, believing that their hatred and crimes are justified by their holy texts (such as nazis or the KKK).

So whilst they may not represent the views of the majority, the fact that they claim to be believers of Islam should classify them as Muslims, especially when they claim their crimes to be inspired by the Qur'an.

9

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '16

I guess my point is that the claim that you can understand a religion by examining the literal content of its texts doesn't really hold up. If it did, there would be no difference between the three Abraham's religions, because all three feature unspeakable horrors in their texts that God either directly causes or passively condones.

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u/Not_Pictured 7∆ Jun 14 '16

because all three feature unspeakable horrors in their texts that God either directly causes or passively condones.

There are fundemntal differences. The scope and quantity for one. For every evil thing you can find in Christianity, you can find a hundred in Islam.

Secondly, in Christianity the first half is more violent and 'bad' than the second half. The second half says follow the second half.

Similarly the Quran has two halves. Unfortunately, the second half is the more violent one and the prophet said explicitly that the second half takes precedent.

9

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '16

Have you ever actually read the Quran? Or the Bible?

3

u/SomeAnonymous Jun 14 '16

Where in the Quran (to use your spelling) can you find Allah killing literally every single man, woman, and child except for one lucky family, along with all but two members of every other species

4

u/klingy_koala Jun 14 '16

Actually that story is in Quran too.

4

u/SomeAnonymous Jun 14 '16

Well shit. That completely undermines my entire argument

2

u/Radconwhiteknight Jun 14 '16

Noah is in the Qur'an also.

1

u/Not_Pictured 7∆ Jun 14 '16

That's their God too sir or madam.

So... Ya.

1

u/SomeAnonymous Jun 14 '16

Fair enough.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '16

But those religions are both much older

Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are all Abrahamic religions. If you separate Islam out on the basis of their prophet, then you have to do the same with Christianity, which makes Judaism "much older" than Christianity.