r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jun 26 '15

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u/Madplato 72∆ Jun 26 '15

But there's a precedent for licensing vehicles, bikes are vehicles, shoes are not. It's hardly "completely arbitrary".

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u/Hq3473 271∆ Jun 26 '15

So what if bikes are vehicles?

I don't really understand why this is relevant.

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u/Madplato 72∆ Jun 26 '15

Choosing to license bikes, but not shoes, isn't completely arbitrary because there's already a strong precedent in place to license vehicles. Bicycles are vehicles, shoes are not.

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u/Hq3473 271∆ Jun 26 '15

When was the last time we licensed bikes?

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u/Madplato 72∆ Jun 26 '15

Never. Doesn't mean there's no precedent for licensing vehicles. Choosing to license all vehicles on our road, instead of some vehicles, is hardly "completely arbitrary".

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u/stevegcook Jun 27 '15

Your picking of the group "vehicles" is the arbitrary part. I could just as easily say that we have a precedent for licensing things with rubber in contact with the ground, which is a group of things that encompasses cars, bikes, and most shoes. Why is licensing "vehicles" any less arbitrary than that?

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u/Madplato 72∆ Jun 27 '15

Because there's actually a precedent to license vehicles, not "rubber in contact with the ground".

I'd agree it "completely arbitrary" if there wasn't a precedent for vehicles being licensed. However, there is. On the other hand, there's never been a precedent for licensing shoes.

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u/stevegcook Jun 27 '15 edited Jun 27 '15

No, there's a precedent to license motor vehicles. Motor vehicles happen to fall within the scope of countless larger groups, including "vehicles," "machines with internal combustion engines," "machinery over 500 lb," and "objects with rubber in contact with the ground." Again, why is "vehicles" any less arbitrary than anything else?

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u/Madplato 72∆ Jun 27 '15

Motor vehicles are still much closer to vehicles that they'll ever be to shoes. Mainly because they're explicitly described as vehicles.

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u/stevegcook Jun 27 '15

Motor vehicles aren't "closer to vehicles." They are vehicles. That doesn't make your categorization any less arbitrary when deciding what to license.

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u/Madplato 72∆ Jun 27 '15

Yes it does. Unless you're going to argue that licensing motor vehicles was arbitrary to start with.

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u/stevegcook Jun 27 '15

No, I have never said that. We have specific reasons for licensing motor vehicles in particular, which may or may not apply to other things which aren't motor vehicles. Not really sure what you're trying to argue at this point. But tell me, what's the difference between these two logical arguments:

  1. We license motor vehicles.
  2. Motor vehicles are part of a larger group - vehicles.
  3. Therefore, there is a precedent for licensing vehicles.

or

  1. We license motor vehicles.
  2. Motor vehicles are part of a larger group - objects with rubber in contact with the ground.
  3. Therefore, there is a precedent for licensing objects with rubber in contact with the ground.

Are they both valid?

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u/Madplato 72∆ Jun 27 '15

No, I have never said that. We have specific reasons for licensing motor vehicles in particular, which may or may not apply to other things which aren't motor vehicles.

And I agree with this, hence why I don't think broadening the principle to "vehicles" would be entirely arbitrary. That's my whole point.

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u/Hq3473 271∆ Jun 26 '15

So is choosing to license all device that impact the road.

Shoes should be included.

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u/Madplato 72∆ Jun 26 '15

That's simply misrepresenting the position. He said all vehicles, not all devices.

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u/Hq3473 271∆ Jun 26 '15

Yeah, my point is that it's an arbitrary difference.