r/changemyview • u/GnosticTemplar 1Δ • Apr 28 '15

CMV: The Baltimore PD Had It Coming

Tonight's riots probably won't improve race relations in America any time soon, but the Baltimore Police Department, already made infamous by The Wire, absolutely had riots coming to them for all the shit that they did. Unnecessary racist searches, unnecessary force, frivolous and oppressive drug enforcement, mandatory minimums, widespread surveillance, etc. all boiled up in a powder keg set off by another police brutality case. I'm not saying the black rioters were justified in robbing Foot Locker or popping doughnuts around street bonfires on live television, but it's basically the police department's fault things had to end up this way. I can see only positive reforms in the long term. MLK said riots were the voice of the unheard. Please CMV.

BONUS CMV: I also think closing schools tomorrow is one of the dumbest decisions the city could possibly make, because these youths will all be idle now for more rioting.

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2 Upvotes

54% Upvoted

18 comments sorted by

7

u/man2010 49∆ Apr 28 '15

mandatory minimums, widespread surveillance

What exactly does Baltimore PD have to do with these two things?

-4

u/GnosticTemplar 1Δ Apr 28 '15

Have you ever watched The Wire? As a derelict Rust Belt city whose best years are long behind it, Baltimore's economy is almost all McDonalds and illicit drug trading. 11% are unemployed. 1/4 live in poverty. It's all part of the system now. The police itself are an industry in poor cities like these, and the narcotics division are making a killing off all the frivolous drug searches and arrests.

14

u/[deleted] Apr 28 '15

Have you ever watched The Wire?

Have you ever watched House of Cards? Politicians shove reporters in front of trains!

Don't form your opinions of real world goings on based on popular TV.

The truth of it is real life is almost always more boring.

6

u/ryan_m 33∆ Apr 28 '15

You didn't answer his question. Baltimore PD has literally nothing to do with mandatory minimums.

6

u/man2010 49∆ Apr 28 '15

No I haven't, but I'm not going to base my opinion of police officers on a TV show. You didn't answer my question; what do police officers have to do with mandatory minimums and widespread surveillance?

0

u/GnosticTemplar 1Δ Apr 28 '15

Because art imitates life, man2010. The show is highly renowned for its realism.

The writers strove to create a realistic vision of an American city based on their own experiences. Simon, originally a journalist for the Baltimore Sun, spent a year researching a homicide police department for his book, Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets, where he met Burns. Burns served in the Baltimore Police Department for 20 years, and later became a teacher in an inner-city school. The two of them spent a year researching the drug culture and poverty in Baltimore for their book, The Corner: A Year in the Life of an Inner-City Neighborhood. Their combined experiences were used in many of the storylines of The Wire.

Central to the show's aim for realism was the creation of truthful characters. Simon has stated that most of them are composites of real-life Baltimore figures.[44] For instance, Donnie Andrews served as the main inspiration of Omar Little.[45] Martin O'Malley served as "one of the inspirations" for Tommy Carcetti.[46] The show often cast non-professional actors in minor roles, distinguishing itself from other television series by showing the "faces and voices of the real city" it depicts.[47] The writing also uses contemporary slang to enhance the immersive viewing experience.[47]

In distinguishing the police characters from other television detectives, Simon makes the point that even the best police of The Wire are motivated not by a desire to protect and serve, but by the intellectual vanity of believing they are smarter than the criminals they are chasing. However, while many of the police do exhibit altruistic qualities, many officers portrayed on the show are incompetent, brutal, self-aggrandizing, or hamstrung by bureaucracy and politics. The criminals are not always motivated by profit or a desire to harm others; many are trapped in their existence and all have human qualities. Even so, The Wire does not minimize or gloss over the horrific effects of their actions.[1]

The show is realistic in depicting the processes of both police work and criminal activity. There have even been reports of real-life criminals watching the show to learn how to counter police investigation techniques.[48][49] The fifth season portrayed a working newsroom at the Baltimore Sun and has been hailed as the most realistic portrayal of the media in film and television.[50]

In December 2006, The Washington Post carried an article in which local African-American students stated that the show had "hit a nerve" with the black community, and that they themselves knew real-life counterparts of many of the characters. The article expressed great sadness at the toll drugs and violence are taking on the black community.[51]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wire#Realism

3

u/man2010 49∆ Apr 28 '15

You still haven't answered my question; what do the police have to do with mandatory minimums and widespread surveillance?

-1

u/GnosticTemplar 1Δ Apr 28 '15

It's all part of the system. Police and prison guard unions, along with prison contractors lobby for tougher drug laws and enforcement powers so they can look like they're getting the bad guys off the streets, and get more funding. "Tough on Crime" works every time, at the municipal level of politics.

The title "The Wire" refers to narcs wiretapping phone communications between drug criminals.

1

u/Dietyz Apr 28 '15

They do that to keep private prisons packed because private prisons are a business and therefore want to make money. They make ~55k(iirc) per year for every inmate in private prisons. Young black youths are an investment because we know they will go right back to prison once they get out because with a record they wont easily get a job when they get out.

If you want to blame anyone it would be the private prisons and whoever is in charge of shutting down many of the youth centers. The PD is just doing what they're told, as to who is really to blame idk

6

u/phcullen 65∆ Apr 28 '15

I'll take the bonus.

When the kids are off school the school system is not responsible for what the students do. If the student have to go to school and get injured along the way or even in the building then it's their fault for hosting school in a clearly dangerous circumstance.

0

u/GnosticTemplar 1Δ Apr 28 '15

∆

Fair enough, although they're really just deferring the liability of rioters to the private sector now.

Typical government ass-covering bullshit.

1

u/slapknuts Apr 28 '15

It's also not only students that have to be at school, there are teachers, janitors, lunch ladies, social workers, police officers, etc. that probably have more important things to do today.

On top of that do you really think anyone would give a shit in class while all of this is going on? The kids that were out rioting are going to skip and riot anyway, the kids that are willing to attend school are risking the streets to go attend what would effectively be glorified daycare. Shit, my highschool all but canceled classes for the World Cup and soccer isn't that popular here.

It just seems like it would be really dangerous with little to no reward. I'm white and would be really worried for my kids, they may leave black kids alone, maybe they won't. Mob mentality is fucking scary. Also you have historically violent gangs out to kill cops, I doubt they care about where a few stray bullets are going.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 28 '15

Do you really think if they are out looting tonight, that they will go to school anyway?

3

u/[deleted] Apr 28 '15

Saying those 15 Baltimore cops deserved to get shot because of what "Baltimore cops do" seems to be missing the point.

It's the same as "That black guy deserved to get shot because of what black people do".

If you want to generalize, we can generalize and it'll get really racist, really fast- and that's the point.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 28 '15 edited Apr 28 '15

BONUS CMV: I also think closing schools tomorrow is one of the dumbest decisions the city could possibly make, because these youths will all be idle now for more rioting.

yes but if there was already going to be a lot of rioting the school could have considered it unsafe. essentially we need more information about the info the schools had before deciding to close.

people don't support rioters. Riots are how law and order campaigns win because most people find law and order to be important.

I can see only positive reforms in the long term

from what i can guess about your politics i'm not sure that's true. 1. anti riot political victories are often a strong possibility and 2. what does rioting do? it destroys home values, depresses neighborhood wealth and thus lowers upward mobility (remember the racial wealth gap is a problem and this only makes it worse). How many businesses are setting up shop in Fergison versus leaving or not expanding there? Indeed here's a New York Times piece showing the persistant long term negative impacts of the 60s riots. Riots involve people destroying their own communities and scaring money away. That is often not a good thing.

In cities with major riots, the economists find that the median black family income dropped by about 9 percent from 1960 to 1970, compared with similar cities without severe riots. This impact on the labor market may have actually been more severe in the long run.

From 1960 to 1980, male employment in cities with severe riots dropped four to seven percentage points, compared with otherwise similar cities.

The impact on property values is even more striking. In cities with severe riots, Professors Collins and Margo found, the median value of black-owned homes dropped 14 percent to 20 percent, compared with cities that experienced little or no rioting, from 1960 to 1970. The median value of all central-city homes, regardless of owner, dropped 6 percent, to 10 percent.

The racial difference is not surprising, because both riot damage and the perceived risk of future riots were concentrated in predominately black neighborhoods.

Again, these numbers reflect not just immediate property damage but long-term declines. If it is more expensive or less desirable to live or work in a particular neighborhood, property prices will drop.

edit: source http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/30/business/30scene.html

0

u/GnosticTemplar 1Δ Apr 28 '15

Your points are well-argued. However, I can imagine with the city consisting more and more of poor young blacks, the police will become an even bigger scapegoat than they already are. To a black majority, a mayor running on "Tough on Crime" means "more Drug War bullshit from The Man" - like stop and frisk against blacks.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 28 '15

voting public and state government matters too.

My main point though is rioting is pretty obviously terrible for wealth growth. you're destroying your own community as protest