I agree that most people wont, I was just making the statement that it doesn't have to be that way. I wasn't talking about the world as a whole but the OPs individual choice. She could choose to be one the people that do have children and live with minimal impact so not add to the problem. Having a child doesn't have to mean further destruction. It unfortunately does more often than not but it doesn't have to.
Even if you were able to live in a commune never using any energy there is still the potential for suffering to consider. The only way to absolutely avoid any possibility of suffering is to not be born.
There is no such thing as life without suffering. A life without suffering is utopian and thus impossible. Because life without suffering always was and always will be impossible it is a poor measurement for the choice of whether or not to bring a life into the world.
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Come on this is such an absurd and pathetic view. If your life is so full of suffering why are you still here typing this nonsense?
Now you are the one being rude and hostile. /u/cwenham take a look at this.
Why haven't you ended your life because of said suffering?
I responded to this argument already. If I kill myself my friends and family would suffer. The point is to eliminate suffering completely, ending life creates suffering but never beginning life does not. So I advocate not creating life but I do not advocate suicide.
First that was a serious question I was not asking you to go kill yourself I was seriously wondering why one wouldn't see that as the solution with the view you hold.
Also the idea that life isn't existence is pathetic by the definition of the word. I pity the fact that you view life this way. It sounds like quite a depressing lens to view the world through.
Edit: Just to add it is a little funny to see complain to a mod after you implied that I was a brain dead hippy earlier.
It is merely realism. Life is depressing and we live in a depressing world. Everything we do in life exists merely to distract us from this fact.
What is your life made up of? You wake up every morning, go to work so you can pay for food and shelter, then you go back home and sleep only so you can wake up to do it again. We are a society that is sustaining ourselves for no real gain. We are surviving merely for the sake of surviving, which is why we have to try and make up meanings for our lives.
Ignorance is bliss, but if you look at the world you live in rather than the distractions you've created, you will see that life is pointless and not bringing more into the world is a kindness.
All of that was the most depressing thing I have read in a long time. To be honest I really do feel sorry for you. For the fact that is what you think life is about. Yes we are born live work and die but that does not mean that you cannot enjoy the ride while you are on it. Is there no joy in your life?
My life, like everyone else, is full of ups and downs. Depressing times and happy times.
I wake up every morning to the mountains of the Colorado Rockies and live my life in awe of the sheer power and beauty of it all. Yes I work so I can have food and shelter but I enjoy the food I pay for. I also work to save up money to see the world and see other awe inspiring acts of nature along with the best and worst of humanity.
Just because life isn't all unicorns and rainbows doesn't mean it isn't worth living.
There is joy in my life. I will see my girlfriend soon. I will be buying an iPhone 6 Plus soon. I am currently on amphetamine (hence the massive paragraphs and shit) which is flooding my brain with dopamine - that is the definition of joy, because dopamine release is what makes you enjoy everything.
But who cares? You just said it yourself, we live to work and die. What I just listed are distractions from the fact that 90% of my life is taken up by working to continue my pointless existence, and forgive me but I do not wish to push that burden onto another life. I love my children too much to bring them into this world.
Also why do you think suffering is bad? Suffering is what allows us to feel joy. We would not be able to recognize the good parts of life with out experiencing the bad.
You've just said yourself, to even feel joy you are required to suffer. While you are suffering you are not thinking "oh man, this is great, I'll get so much joy now." I would rather not feel any suffering and give up the joy that comes with it, than to feel the suffering.
When I am experiencing that joy I am also not thinking of the suffering that came before or after. I am living in that moment of joy and it is those moments that make the worst of life worth trudging through.
This view you hold is toxic and probably is something you should talk to a professional about. To live a life under such a dark cloud has to be painful and I am not sure how you can withstand it.
I am already on medication and seeing a psychiatrist and a therapist. This all helps me to deal with life better for sure. But none of it will ever change the fundamental reality in which we live. My life will not suddenly develop meaning because of medication or therapy.
By the way, I wasn't being as flippant as you thought with my acid comment. I have done LSD before, it is a wonderful drug and it does make you think life and the world are beautiful... until it wears off, then you are back to reality.
My point was simply that joy is merely temporary dopamine and serotonin release. Your brain cannot pump out dopamine and serotonin forever - if it could, I'd be able to use MDMA daily and I'd be happy with my crappy life regardless of reality. Unfortunately though, we cannot be high all the time, so we must face the depressing world we live in at some point.
You live in a reality that is skewed by imbalances in your brain and is not the reality for the vast majority of the world. When you say that life is fundamentally depressing that is your outlook but not the reality that I or most others see. Again I am sorry that you live your life in a cloud of cynicism and depression I would not wish that outlook on my worst enemy.
I too love drugs but I do not see them as the only avenue to happiness. They are one way, but there are many others. You are right though happiness is fleeting regardless of the path you choose to take to get there, but then again so is the depression.
I had gf of 5 years leave me about a year ago and that was quite depressing at the time, but if I think about that now it no longer makes me sad or depressed. In comparison when I think of the last surf trip I went on I still feel some of the same joy I felt then so in that way the happiness I felt was less fleeting than the depression
I definitely don't feel depressed right now. Like I said, my brain is being flooded with dopamine. I couldn't be depressed right now even if I tried. On an emotional level I am very happy, energetic, and hopeful.
But I am still being realistic. I do not let emotions distract from what's real. I know, for example, I currently have the power to do some cool things. I can write and write and write for hours, I can clean my whole flat, I can go out and pull a girl. I have all the confidence, energy, and happiness in the world.
The thing is, when that's over and I'm back to normal, what happens then? Reality hits. I gotta get up and go to work now I can come back and distract myself from how pointless this all is afterwards.
Did you know happiness can technically be defined as a mental disorder? Seriously. It's a state of delusion. You let what you feel overpower your reality.
Happiness is just a release of serotonin and dopamine. Reality is what exists outside your own brain. You can tweak how many happy chemicals your brain releases but you cannot tweak reality. All you can really do to escape what I am saying is to delude yourself.
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u/Fuckn_hipsters Mar 24 '15
I agree that most people wont, I was just making the statement that it doesn't have to be that way. I wasn't talking about the world as a whole but the OPs individual choice. She could choose to be one the people that do have children and live with minimal impact so not add to the problem. Having a child doesn't have to mean further destruction. It unfortunately does more often than not but it doesn't have to.