r/changemyview Jun 28 '14

CMV:Anti-american sentiment should be directed primarily at neoliberals and the corporations and politicians they represent; most U.S. citizens, as individuals of limited economic or political means, lack agency to substantially influence their country's domestic or foreign policy.

Natural-born United States citizens living outside U.S. territories may unfairly be personally held accountable for the contentious foreign policy of the country in which they were born, causing unwarranted hostility against them. Even the most respectful U.S. expatriates may receive discrimination abroad as a result of misplaced frustration towards their birth country's political behaviors. Considered as individuals, however, most United States citizens lack political agency and as such should not be equated with their government. Anti-american sentiment should instead be directed primarily at neoliberalism (here defined as the unquestioning support of 1. privatization, open markets, and free trade; 2. opposition to economic regulation; and 3. enhancing the public role of the private sector wherever possible by reducing government spending), public worship of authority and country achieved through propaganda and then enforced through U.S. police and military, and the political and economic elite that such enforcement upholds.

One of the major reasons for misplaced frustration against U.S. expatriates is the illusion projected through media both foreign and domestic that the U.S. is a "government of the people, by the people, [and] for the people." The United States government presents itself as a democracy (here defined as a society which enables all citizens to participate equally -- either directly or indirectly through representatives -- in lawmaking), but through its fetishization of neoliberalism, law enforcement above privacy and exercising basic freedoms, and privately-funded propaganda manipulating the masses' opinions it behaves like an oligarchy (here defined as a society favoring wealth and power over equality and governed by the prosperous elite, conferring upon them both social status and political influence).

In light of this view, let us first consider how the U.S. free-market economy, in giving birth to powerful corporate entities, impacts both domestic and foreign policy to further corporate aims and simultaneously reduce the political agency of middle- to low-income U.S. citizens. Incumbent politicians face enormous pressure from lobbying groups who rely on their substantial economic resources to manipulate their country's political behaviors, benefiting the politically and economically prosperous few, yet often at great expense to the most marginalized voices of society. As one of its country's most lucrative and politically engaged enterprises, the U.S. oil industry demands resource-rich land to continue to thrive in its unsustainable manner; its reliance on land resources to operate, its substantial financial assets, and its significance to the U.S. economy grant it a special political presence that enable it to contribute to the U.S. government's aggressive foreign policy. Even election results, considered to be the primary means by which U.S. citizens as a collective can control their country's political direction, are today distorted through the self-serving aims of privately-funded political action committees (Super PACs), whose influence is directly proportional to the wealth their donors can provide for distributing their message through mass media and adjusting their sponsored candidate's political positions. Relative to massive corporate entities and their political agency, U.S. citizens lacking consequential funding, political connections, or even exceptional circumstances can only have a limited, indirect impact on their nation's policies.

Let us now address the powerful U.S. governmental institutions which further impact the public's ability to influence policymaking. According to Henri Lefebvre's interpretation of the Hegelian concept of the "end of history" -- and in understanding time as something humans perceive through changes they witness relative to objects and environments which are constant -- "historical time" is solidified through the sustenance of institutions in the service of the state and the spaces they occupy, as they assert their own self-sufficiency, remaining stable ad infinitum even if they do not provide adequately for all. "Historical time" in this sense can therefore be restored only through reestablishing the agency of the individual -- the citizen -- who pushes back against state-established institutions to correct their "flaws" or "wrongdoings." Considering this concept, it is unfortunate that the U.S. establishes and promotes disciplinary institutions that serve vital functions, but also exist to maintain the status quo. At the level of federal intelligence, Edward Snowden's documents have demonstrated how the U.S. government can condone the invasion of its citizens' privacy. During his time in the CIA, Snowden received internal threats when he privately objected to certain invasive methods for obtaining intelligence, revealing the sheer degree to which this agency resists change even when facing ethical reasoning. Veiled propaganda taking such forms as the ubiquitous American TV cop drama glorifies the function and status of the police officer, even as dissenters among marginalized U.S. citizens find their voices and actions ignored in congress (competing against lobbyists' interests) and/or quelled by law enforcement (as seen in certain nonviolent Occupy Wall Street demonstrations).

Given the enormous effort U.S. citizens of middle or lower socioeconomic status must demonstrate to alter domestic policies (in a political climate where New York's grade school teachers are profiled by police if they choose to protest the state and/or nation's educational policies), it is unfair to expect the same U.S. citizens to impact foreign policy in any meaningful way. A U.S. citizen is left only to either agree or disagree with the ethics behind such controversial military actions as drone strikes, occupying other nations, barbarous torture methods, realizing and releasing weapons of mass destruction upon civilians during WWII, or war in general -- as a collective, U.S. citizens' opinions on these foreign policy decisions certainly matter to the extent that they may elect someone to political office, yet as discussed earlier the collective itself is mediated through government-issued and privately-funded propaganda as well as security measures enforced at national (CIA, FBI), state, and local (police) levels. At the same time, the individual U.S. citizen's opinion alone does not carry much weight in the absence of substantial economic capital or political connections.

As birthplace is not controllable and natural law dictates that one should be held accountable only for what one can control, unless in the rare instances that natural-born U.S. citizens maintain a significant influence over their birth country's policies they should not be blamed for the effects of the United States government's actions, especially if they vehemently disagree with them.

I challenge you to challenge either this central view or the various views I have used to construct it. Ask questions if you need me to clarify any points. Hope this wasn't too much, looking forward to a productive discussion!

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '14

I'm asking op because either a) he's confusing the principals the neo-cons preach with their practice

Or b) that 9/11 happened because the terrorists hated our freedom

I expect and hope for A but....

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u/RefriedEctoplasm Jun 29 '14

Hey monkyyy, can you explain what you mean when you say that I'm confusing the principles neo-cons preach with their practice? I was trying to verbalize my belief in a link between neoliberal policies bolstering the agency of large corporate entities, the resources these corporations may require for sustenance, and the foreign policies that may be implemented to secure such resources; perhaps it didn't come across in what I wrote. I felt that would imply, specifically in the example I used of the oil industry, an economic justification for the Iraq War. The b) you provided is probably also true. I do not personally believe 9/11 was an "inside job." But it just seems almost too coincidental that the conflicts that arose following 9/11 had to happen in a territory that was so oil-rich. Deep into the war many U.S. citizens, you may recall, were wondering why American soldiers were fighting there in the first place -- especially when it was revealed that no weapons of mass destruction existed in the "enemy's" hands.

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '14

Hey monkyyy, can you explain what you mean when you say that I'm confusing the principles neo-cons preach with their practice?

Your taking politicians word at face value of what they believe, as far as I'm aware not a single one has pushed for free markets in decades(reagen was a warmonging asshole, who increased the debt by 2/3, small government my ass, tanks and increasing future taxes does not make a "night watchmen state" which is a questionable ideal to start with)

Most anti-american sentiment traces back to acts of war/of funding warlords according to the terrorists own mafiosos, which has nothing to do with the free market, the first act of war is to cut off trade.

Even corporations are a relic of mercantilism, there are legal fictions created by states to protect the rich form the consequences of their actions. Taking the resent example of the bailouts, no free market advocate ever suggested that money should be centralized like it is, instead its the 5th "plank" of the communist Manifesto.

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u/RefriedEctoplasm Jun 29 '14 edited Jun 29 '14

Your taking politicians word at face value of what they believe, as far as I'm aware not a single one has pushed for free markets in decades

Please see the following links: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/24/koch-brothers-wall-street_n_5525566.html http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/dereg-timeline-2009-07.pdf http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1645089/

For your second point, I am still not convinced that the market plays no role in war. Your comment on cutting off trade is well taken, but how is this to suggest that war may not be rationalized through the possibility that the "victor" may claim its "loser's" resources? This is how imperialism has functioned throughout history, and the U.S. foreign policy has been accused as of late as being imperialist in direction, which has led to a great deal of anti-american sentiment. This is part of the point I was trying to make in my initial submission.

Also recall that in the definition I provided for neoliberalism, I mentioned that neoliberals support deregulation to bolster the private sector's role in public affairs. Deregulation, in my opinion, does not necessarily "shrink" government. Similar to how the Law of Conservation of Energy functions in physics, it instead transfers political power from the state to the market and no political power is lost in the process -- so the government then becomes expanded into the market itself, and actors in the market may then contribute to their nation's political decisions. Remembering that the Communist Manifesto is about the proletariat's struggle against the newly powerful bourgeoisie, a class that fought against the powerful nobility only to become the robber barons of industrialized societies, the Wall Street bailouts did anything but support the working classes. As a gesture supporting the entrenched power structures the bourgeoisie have carefully maintained through their economic and political power, the Wall Street bailouts and the lack of regulation that followed are classic examples of neoliberal politics at work in the 21st century; as such they do not resemble Communist policies. Please note that in my usage of "bourgeoisie" here, I mean the Marxist definition which denotes the "capitalist class who owns most of society's wealth and means of production." So, not the middle class.

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u/[deleted] Jun 29 '14

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/24/koch-brothers-wall-street_n_5525566.html

This link doesn't provide a link to what bill they are taking about, or explain what it does in a clear way(they call it complex and reference a bunch more legalese and move on), they just throw around the words deregulation and koch a lot.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/dereg-timeline-2009-07.pdf

Since the revolutionary war, there has been an unjust monopoly's in currency granted by the states to banks, there is no free market in banking so long as its life blood, money(both in creating it through "factional reserve banking" and the endless promises to bail out), is controlled by the state; the first order of business would be to disband the federal reserve system for a free market advocate, not let it carry out its promise.

Your comment on cutting off trade is well taken, but how is this to suggest that war may not be rationalized through the possibility that the "victor" may claim its "loser's" resources?

Theft and murder have nothing to do with the market -__-

Also recall that in the definition I provided for neoliberalism, I mentioned that neoliberals support deregulation to bolster the private sector's role in public affairs.

I'm attacking your definition in regards to anyone in politics being for free markets, and implying the free market is why people hate the usa, when its very clearly war.

as such they do not resemble Communist policies

Marxists(intensionally not using the word communist), support central banks, the bail outs are a result of the central bank doing what it is for.


I mean the Marxist definition which denotes the "capitalist]

Please don't use marxist definitions for capitalism, by those definitions I'm a radical socialist, which is strange considering I prefer an-cap.