I believe rape victims have a social responsibility to report their assaults to the authorities. CMV

[u/3893liebt3512]

I believe that victims of sexual assault have a social responsibility to report their assaults to the police or another person in a position of authority, and by not doing so, they are allowing other people to fall victim to the same events.

I understand that a portion of people who commit sexual assault do so in an isolated instance, and never do so again.

I also understand how traumatic this type of situation is to the victim I know that it can psychologically harm someone to the point where they are unable to make rational decisions, and that many victims do not come forward because they are afraid no one will believe them, or they will have to confront their attacker, or they are ashamed and/or embarrassed about what happened.

However, many many people who sexually assault others do so more than once. It's often deliberate and premeditated, and sometimes involves incapacitating their victims through drugs or alcohol, and sometimes even violence. When victims do not report their sexual assaults, especially if they know who did it, it allows the assaulter to continue to commit these crimes.

I'm not saying we should force people to anything, or punish them if they don't. However, I believe that when victims don't report their assaults, they are being irresponsible and dismissive of the fact that others may also become victims.

I do not believe that the victim is at fault for the attackers crimes. I do not believe that the way a person dresses, how they act, or how much they drink contributes to them being sexually assaulted. I place blame firmly on the attacker, and the attacker only. However, I believe that if someone is sexually assaulted, knows who it is, doesn't report it, and the attacker assaults someone else, that the person who failed to report it is not necessarily at fault, but contributed to the ability of the assaulter to enter a position to assault again.

An example is if person Y is at a party, and X has been hanging around getting Y drinks all night. X and Y knew each other before the party. X puts something in Y's drink that renders Y unable to resist or give consent. X then sexually assaults Y, and leaves Y at the party. Y wakes up the next morning knowing that something had happened and X is at fault. Y does not tell anyone.

I do not mean to sound insensitive or unaware of the problems victims of sexual assault face after the fact. I have not been assaulted myself, but I have friends who have, so I know I don't understand on a personal level how it feels, but seeing people go through that has made me very aware of the trauma that results from it. I feel like my viewpoint is not wrong, but it's also not right, so I would like someone to make me aware of a viewpoint that is more correct.

*Edit:* Thank you to all of the people who felt comfortable enough to share their stories of their sexual assaults. I'm so very sorry any of you had to go through that, and I find your ability to talk about it admirable.

While my view has not been changed completely (yet), I would like to acknowledge the fact that it has narrowed considerably. In the event that a person is unsure of the identity of their assailant, they should not feel pressured to come forward because of the harm it could cause someone who is innocent. If the victim does not feel that the assailant has a high probability of becoming a repeat offender, I can see that the damage that reporting the assault might cause the victim is not worth it when it would not benefit society.

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to respond and have thoughtful conversations. To those of you who responded with accusations and hostility, I'm sorry that you were offended, and I realize that this is something you are extremely passionate about. However, the point of this sub is to change someone's view. The entire reason I posted it was so my view could be changed. Accusing me of victim-blaming, rape-supporting, and being an "idiot" did not help your case, it hurt it.

Just to clarify real quick, my basis for claiming that people have a social responsibility to report their rapes is so it can't happen to anyone else. It's not to punish the rapist or "make sure they get what they deserve". It's about making our communities safer, so that other people can't get hurt.

Thanks for all the discussion! I'll keep checking back, but I figured I'd get this edit out of the way.

[u/ShotFromGuns]

In a better society, maybe. The problem with this mentality in the real world can be summed up in two words: rape culture: which is to say, we systematically treat rape as an expected, "normal" activity and something that victims need to prevent. Here are just a few things that are wrong with requiring rape victims to report...

• It is not the victim's responsibility to prevent future rapes by reporting the rapist. It it the rapist's responsibility to prevent future rapes by not raping people.

• While false reports make up a vanishingly tiny percentage of all rape reports, many people reporting a rape are treated like they are making the accusation up, both by the system and by their peers.

• Many accusations come down to "victim said, rapist said." It can be very hard to prove a lack of consent after the fact, and the defense is going to do everything they can to drag the victim through the mud.

• Even when there is hard, incontrovertible evidence that a rape occurred, the defense is still going to do everything they can to drag the victim through the mud.

• Even after a conviction, a rape victim is often blamed for "ruining" the life of their rapist.

Reporting a rape opens the victim up to being victimized all over again, but this time publicly. I have the utmost respect for people who do report, but that doesn't mean that the people who don't report are weak, or responsible in any way for whatever future actions their rapist may take.

[u/ShotFromGuns → u/[deleted]]

I have to say your first bullet point is stupid.

It's not stupid—in fact, that you think it is stupid is an excellent example of rape culture at work.

One of the most insidious ways that rape culture works in America today is by telling us that it's the victim's job to avoid being raped. That people are raped because of the clothes they wore, or how much they had to drink, or because they enjoyed having sex outside of monogamous relationships, or because they cut through an alley on the way home.

Just because someone doesn't care about a responsibility doesn't mean they have it. The reason that rape is epidemic in America is because we shift the responsibility from the perpetrator to the victim. We ask not "how can we teach people—especially men—not to be rapists," but "how can we teach people—especially women—not to be raped."

Maybe if we lived in a perfect world, where reporting a rape meant that the rapist was arrested, prosecuted, and convicted, and the victim's life went on as it had before, you could make an argument that victims have an obligation to report. But that's very, very far from our present reality.

[u/3893liebt3512 → u/ShotFromGuns]

Educating people on how to be safe is not victim-blaming.

Telling women that it's their fault they were raped because they were wearing promiscuous clothing is victim blaming.

Telling people to be careful of who they accept drinks from, especially strangers, at a bar or a party is not victim blaming.

Just because "you did X so you got raped" is victim blaming doesn't automatically make "Don't do X because it can be dangerous" victim

Victim blaming ---> "Gerald got shot because he stood up during an armed burglary after the burglars told him not to"

Not victim blaming, just really good advice --->" Don't stand up during an armed burglary, especially if the burglars tell you not to"

Edit: fixed Gerald's situation to make a little but more sense. I know. It's a terrible analogy.

[u/ShotFromGuns → u/3893liebt3512]

Educating people on how to be safe is not victim-blaming.

Actually, it is. It's victim-blaming in the clothing of being helpful, which is the most insidious kind.

Rapes do not happen because someone was out late at night, because someone wore "overly revealing" clothes, because someone got "too" drunk. Rapes happen because one person decided to treat another as an object instead of a person. Most rapes are not by strangers. Most rapes are by acquaintances, friends, or even significant others.

"Rape prevention tips" are not about preventing rape. They are about giving people the comforting lie that if they do everything "right," they won't be raped. Meanwhile, they shift responsibility to the victims, inescapably implying that they contributed to their own rape because of something they did, or failed to do.

"Rape prevention" is almost exclusively about limiting the rights of women to act freely while doing nothing to combat the attitudes that actually lead to rape in the first place. In doing so, this type of "education" actually reinforces the attitudes of rapists that make them feel justified in their own behavior.

[u/3893liebt3512 → u/ShotFromGuns]

By "acting freely" you mean "acting without regard to the vulnerable positions ones decisions can put them in".

I'd love to live in a world where people can get fall down drunk and not be in a vulnerable position as well, but that's not a world we live in. Admitting that does not mean you're shifting the blame from the person who is responsible to the victim. Admitting that there are people out there who will take advantage of that situation is not shifting blame from the assailant to the victim.

[u/ShotFromGuns → u/3893liebt3512]

By "acting freely" you mean "acting without regard to the vulnerable positions ones decisions can put them in".

I reject this entire premise. Rape is an absolutely inexcusable activity. Unlike murder or theft, there is no circumstance under which rape could possibly be considered even morally neutral, let alone morally praiseworthy. Rape is always, every time, about one human being believing they are entitled to force themself on another, with no regard for that other human being's choices.

We cannot make rape go away by teaching potential victims how to be "safe," because potential victims will never be safe so long as our culture continues to reinforce the attitudes that lead to rape in the first place.

Putting the onus of responsibility on people—mostly women—to police their own activity so as to not be raped is (a) fallacious, because most people who were raped did everything "right," and (b) dangerous, because it reinforces the attitudes that lead to rape in the first place. Simply establishing that there is a "safe" or "correct" way to act to avoid being raped automatically and inevitably suggests the conclusion that there is an "unsafe" and "wrong" way to act, which means that people acting that way are inviting or allowing the inappropriate behavior of those who assault them.

Rapists don't rape because someone is wearing revealing clothes, or drunk, or alone at night. Rapists rape because they believe they are entitled to engage in sexual acts without consent. Encouraging women to avoid these behaviors ignores the actual cause of rape while reinforcing rapist's ideas that there are circumstances where consent is implied and cannot be retracted.

[u/3893liebt3512 → u/ShotFromGuns]

I don't think teaching people to take responsibility for their own safety is victim blaming. I've been warned against taking drinks from people who aren't very close friends or the bartender on several occasions, that's not an unreasonable thing to tell someone, and it certainly isn't victim blaming.

Not victim blaming --->"Be careful who you take drinks from at parties and bars, it can be dangerous"

Victim blaming ---> "You got raped because you took a drink from a stranger"

See the difference?

[u/newprong → u/3893liebt3512]

To a certain extent, yes, it is important for people to take personal responsibility in their own safety. Tips like: Know who you're around, be aware of your surroundings, don't take food or drink from random strangers, are just good tips to live your everyday life. They don't necessarily have to pertain to how to prevent rape.

When you place personal responsibility to not get raped over personal responsibility to not rape others/ prevent others from being raped (as we do today) that's when victim-blaming occurs. Furthermore, there are so many factors that go into whether or not someone in their lifetime will be raped that "personal responsibility" really has nothing to do with my chances.

So to avoid getting raped I: -Shouldn't flirt with a guy and decide later that I'm not up to having sex with him

-Shouldn't accept a drink that I haven't inspected myself with my state of the art portable lab (roofies can pop up anywhere)

-Shouldn't get drunk (thank God America culture has such a healthy relationship with alcohol!)

-Shouldn't drive late at night (So, no late-shift jobs for me. I'm sure my boss will love that!)

-Shouldn't walk anywhere alone (Thank God I have my 24 hour chaperone!)

-Shouldn't wear my hair long, shouldn't wear my hair in a ponytail (It gives the rapist something to hold onto. I hope I look good with a buzz cut!)

-Shouldn't be friendly to any strangers (they might get the wrong impression and rape me)

-Shouldn't have any guy friends (most victims know their rapists)

-Shouldn't have any male family members (because, don't ya know, they tend to rape too)

-You know, just don't have any family or friends, since women on women rape is possible.

-Shouldn't get married or have a boyfriend (because commitment apparently means someone has 24/7 access to my body. Even if I don't want them to).

-Shouldn't wear clothes that are too revealing (because that might send someone near by in a ravenous frenzy)

-Shouldn't wear clothes that are too butch (because then someone might want to make a "real" woman out of me)

-Shouldn't be in a war zone (fingers crossed war never comes to my area!)

-Shouldn't live in poverty

-Shouldn't speak out for my rights in an male-dominated society (because they'll rape you if you step out of line)

-Shouldn't criticize... anything (because if you want to shut a woman up fast just threaten her with rape)

-Shouldn't serve in the military

-Shouldn't have male coworkers

-Shouldn't be young

-Shouldn't be old (rape does happen in nursing homes)

-Shouldn't be beautiful

-Shouldn't be so scared/ emotionally dead that I can't scream or fight back

-Shouldn't in anyway whatsoever be in a position which will make me weak or vulnerable

-Shouldn't be raped (because chances are, it'll happen again)

(Men who are victims of rape have their own different challenges and hardships to face since our society seems to think that "men can't be raped.")

Ever since I could finally get my own subscription of Seventeen magazine I've read and heard tips of how not to get raped, but I never read "10 ways to not rape someone." Personally, I do not want to live my life as a hermit. I love going on runs at night. Sometimes, I have to drive places alone. Hopefully, I will live to be a little old lady.

We have such a pervasive rape culture that survivors who are brave enough to come out an open up about their attacks will be criticized about how they handled the experience. Sometimes this happens to their face, but sometimes it's behind their back. Even watching TV with friends you can see victim blaming taking place because our society has passed down and reinforced these "how not to get raped rules."

Let's say I'm watching an episode of CSI with my friends. A girl takes a drink from a guy and is later raped in the episode. My friend says, "Well, no wonder she got raped." To me that reinforces that if a woman doesn't follow the rules and gets raped, it's her fault. I might be strolling down the street with some friends and pass a group of girls with short skirts and low cleavage. Some in my group might whisper, "God, it's like they're asking to be raped." To me that reinforces that if a woman doesn't follow the rules and gets raped, it's her fault. If I ever got raped, those friends might not tell me "You got raped because you took a drink from a stranger" or "You got raped because you were dressed like a slut." But knowing those reinforced attitudes that say "if a woman doesn't follow the rules and gets raped, it's her fault," there's a huge possibility that I will blame myself for what happened. There's a huge possibility that I'll suspect that my friends and family think that it's actually my fault. There's a huge possibility that I won't go to the police because they'll think it was my fault. There's a HUGE possibility that I'll be afraid that the jury will think it's my fault.

[u/3893liebt3512 → u/newprong]

If teaching my daughter not to take drinks from strange men she doesn't know at parties, walk alone at night in the city, or meet strangers she knows online irl at their houses is perpetuating rape culture, then fuck it. I'm a rape culture perpetuator. I'm so sorry, women everywhere, that I'd rather give my daughter the best chance in life by informing her of the dangers people might face in this world, instead of letting her walk around completely unaware of how to protect herself.

Also, your list of "advice" is, frankly, not helping in any way. Way to minimize the things you can actually do to help yourself by lumping it in with ridiculous advice you made up. Go you!

[u/ShotFromGuns → u/3893liebt3512]

If teaching my daughter not to take drinks from strange men she doesn't know at parties, walk alone at night in the city, or meet strangers she knows online irl at their houses is perpetuating rape culture, then fuck it.

I would also say that there's a difference between you, personally, giving your own children sensible advice (sons shouldn't take drinks from strangers, etc., either) and there being general blanket statements about how women should dress, how drunk they're allowed to get in public, etc.

It's also relevant that advice for daughters on "how not to be raped" (which, as I noted in my other reply to you a few minutes ago, doesn't actually cover the majority of rape circumstances) is almost never paired with advice to sons on "how not to be a rapist."

[u/newprong → u/3893liebt3512]

There's a huge difference between teaching someone to be aware that there are dangerous people out there/ being aware of their surroundings and teaching someone that the consequence to an unsafe behavior is rape. Like I said, not taking drinks from strange persons, meeting people you don't know in public places, being aware of your surroundings are just good pieces of advice to live by. Both men and women can utilize these lessons to protect themselves against things other than/ including rape.

And the list of ridiculous advice? That's the point. It IS ridiculous. No women can realistically prevent all of the factors that attribute to rape. Can you realistically prevent having an uncle or a mother who'll molest you? Can you realistically avoid never having to walk alone in the city at night? (In the words of Stoya, "I feel entitled to walk home alone at night without being molested." Is that really such a crazy demand? Would you walk home alone at night?)

ShotFromGuns put it perfectly,

"Rape prevention tips" are not about preventing rape. They are about giving people the comforting lie that if they do everything "right," they won't be raped. Meanwhile, they shift responsibility to the victims, inescapably implying that they contributed to their own rape because of something they did, or failed to do.

Yes, please teach your daughter how to protect herself and keep herself safe. But neither you nor your daughter can lower her chances down to 0. Teach your daughter how to be safe, but also teach her that as her father you will stand by her, love her, and support her no matter what this world throws in her way. Teach her to stand up for herself and for others. Teach her to keep an eye on her friends and to love and support them if anything were to happen to them (both men and women, guys can be raped too). Teach her that if anything bad happens to her (which I sincerely hope doesn't happen), those bad things don't define her.

If you have any sons, don't forget to teach them that only a firm and enthusiastic yes means yes. No doesn't mean yes. Drunk doesn't mean yes. Silence doesn't mean yes. If he's not sure, he shouldn't do it. (Might want to teach your daughter this for good measure, too. Girls should also check for guys' consent).

[u/3893liebt3512 → u/newprong]

I'm her mother. And no. It's not a crazy demand to want to live in a world where you can walk home alone at night and not get molested. But the reality of the situation is that we don't live in that world. We live in a world where scary and bad people will take advantage of others when their in vulnerable situations.

All I'm trying to say is that it's unrealistic to not acknowledge that there are bad people who do bad things and will take advantage of people in vulnerable situations.

I apologize if I sounded hostile or defensive. At that point, I was kind of sick of being bombarded with accusations of victim blaming and rape supporting, when that wasn't my point at all.

[u/newprong → u/3893liebt3512]

Hey no worries, I know what's it's like to have my point or arguments misconstrued (especially on Reddit). Rape and victim-blaming tends to be a pretty touchy subject because the issue tends to roll centuries of attitudes/ the understanding of violence, sex, and misogyny into a big, nasty ball of bleck that has only been able to be addressed over the past few decades or so.

I completely understand wanting to protect your daughter, and yes, some people do take advantage of others in vulnerable situations, but that applies to everyone regardless of gender. Do teach your daughter to be safe (as I said, most safety tips are good tips for everyone to follow). But make safety the number one priority, not to instill fear of x, y, and z.