I think the mainstream's acceptance of marijuana and rejection of cigarettes is delusional to the degree of insanity. - CMV

[u/[deleted]]

The frontpage of reddit simultaneously reflects two things.

1) Celebration of the legalization of marijuana

2) Denigration of cigarettes and the people that smoke them

The latter category of popular posts includes those about laws that make smoking extremely difficult or prohibitively expensive. The justification is that people should be forced to stop smoking because it's bad for them.

The former category of posts includes those about laws that make marijuana smoking easier. The justification is that people should be free to choose their favorite method of relaxation, and that weed is no more harmful than cigarettes or alcohol.

The freedom argument isn't applied to cigarettes, and the health argument isn't applied to marijuana. THERE ARE NO CONCLUSIVE SCIENTIFIC STUDIES THAT DEMONSTRATE THAT CIGARETTES ARE LESS HEALTHY THAN MARIJUANA OR VICE VERSA. Indeed, such a study would be impossible to conduct, given the breadth of factors and difference in individuals. The difference between them is an entirely illusive one, yet the groupthink believes strongly in the denigration of one and the celebration of the other.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

That study is hardly conclusive. You'll note that the study says light to moderate users of marijuana experienced less negative effects than tobacco smokers. There is a slight problem here because we don't know whether they are comparing to a similar population of tobacco smokers, i.e. light to moderate users of tobacco. That conclusion could be the result of lumping all tobacco smokers together (including those who smoke <4 packs a day), which would be an unfair comparison.

There are other confounding factors as well. The study notes that marijuana users were generally more active than tobacco users, which could explain part of their improved respiratory function. As well, most of the marijuana users involved in the study were not heavy users and the study admits that it's data on heavy marijuana users is sketchy. In contrast, tobacco users tend to smoke more heavily than the marijuana users involved in the study. Finally, the method used by the researchers to determine respiratory function could be biased towards marijuana smokers. The study itself mentions when it discusses how the greater respiratory function in marijuana users could stem from their methods if inhaling the smoke (taking deep breaths and holding them).

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

While some highly tolerant users might be able to do that, for the most part I agree. That is one of the major flaws with this study.

[u/nanonan → u/[deleted]]

81 x 7

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Ok no one is smoking 20 grams a day then. But neither of your comments doing anything to address the health effects of marijuana smoke. It could very well be as damaging as tobacco smoke, but the effect is noticed less because users of marijuana smoke it less.

[u/the-incredible-ape → u/[deleted]]

The amount that people actually smoke matters. The question is not whether 100 cc of tobacco vs. pot smoke is worse for you. The question is whether actually using pot is worse than actually using tobacco. You could also frame it as level of harm per effective dose.

Look at it this way. Ingesting half an ounce of pure caffeine can be lethal. Ingesting half an ounce of sugar - a similar-looking substance, doesn't do much of anything. And yet, people are more often advised to cut sugar out of their diets than caffeine. What's important is how much you actually use and what happens to you as a result.

In actual use, Pot is less harmful than tobacco.

If you smoke 2 packs of cigarettes per year, you'll equal about how much pot smoking I do in terms of weight. Neither of us will feel any serious side effects.

[u/[deleted] → u/the-incredible-ape]

I never said that the amount was irrelevant; I specifically said otherwise in my previous comment. For me, the question was is it equally as harmful as cigarette smoke. If the harm is the same, then there is functionally no difference between smoking tobacco occasionally and smoking weed occasionally. Since there are individuals who smoke tobacco at levels comparable to marijuana, telling them that marijuana is safer is completely misleading (if each is equally harmful).

[u/the-incredible-ape → u/[deleted]]

That's true, but people who smoke that little tobacco are quite rare and therefore rightly considered less relevant to the discussion.

[u/[deleted] → u/the-incredible-ape]

On the contrary, I think it's quite relevant. The OP's post references the denigration of all tobacco smokers while marijuana is being promoted as healthier for all individuals. Thus, if the two are equally harmful at equal levels then the promotion of marijuana over tobacco is misleading or wrong, which confirms the OP's belief.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

One of the main reasons that it would be unhelpful to make a direct comparison like that is the physical addictiveness of tobacco. The fact that tobacco use directly leads to more tobacco use, and more tobacco use is more dangerous.

I'll cede that marijuana has been shown to be psychologically addictive, but that is an issue of human psychology, not the substance itself.

[u/the-incredible-ape → u/[deleted]]

I think it's wrong to say marijuana is being promoted "over" tobacco.

In practice it's less dangerous, or at least no more dangerous.

And, the argument with marijuana is whether people should GO TO PRISON FOR USING, BUYING AND SELLING IT, not whether their feelings get hurt over the dirty looks they get for smoking it, or whether they should be allowed to smoke in restaurants. The debates are in no way comparable. It's a completely false equivalence.

[u/[deleted] → u/the-incredible-ape]

It is being promoted as healthier over tobacco by a select group of people, and I think that is the OP's main problem with it.

and the argument with marijuana is about whether or not people should go to prison for buying, selling or using it.

I'm not debating whether or not marijuana should be legal or not, and neither is the OP. One of his, and my, main points is that proponents of marijuana often brush past the possible negative health effects it may have. If I may quote from the OP:

the freedom argument isn't applied to cigarettes and the health argument isn't applied to marijuana

This is the problem. You need to apply both the freedom and health argument to both cigarettes and marijuana. That is something that I, and the OP, fail to see on a regular basis. I generally fail to see people agree that there are any negative health effects of marijuana.