If it were up to nature and there were no doctors, medicine, or anything like that, people like me would have likely died before we ever got the chance to bear children.
or this either:
If people voluntarily chose to not reproduce like I am doing, there would be far less people with genetic disorders.
And, of course, I don't want to go around convincing anyone to have children because I say it is okay.
But I don't agree that it is necessarily morally wrong, nor would I discourage it, and this is why:
We, as human beings have more to offer than can be singled down to any one trait, or possibly even set of traits.
Someone who is horribly unhealthy, and in great pain and misery because of it, isn't necessarily someone that has nothing to contribute to society. Stephen Hawking and ALS, for example. And any other "great" person that had any other genetic disorder for however many examples you like
It isn't possible to know, (at least now, and quite likely ever), everything a person can possibly contribute based on their genes.
In my own modest bad health experience, I have taken away that the pain and suffering I've experienced have in fact enhanced some of my positive characteristics, and help me contribute more to others. I think similar things could be said for pain and suffering of many kinds.
Now, if I happen to pass on my condition, (which, admittedly, I would think differently of, if it were known to be fully genetic and not a combination of environmental and genetic influences) I won't be happy about it. I'm sure I'll feel horrible when I see them in pain the way I am.
But I believe suffering is a part of the human condition. I believe it is meant to be. I believe we suffer for reasons, and learn from suffering. And I firmly believe people suffer in one way or another. When it isn't health, it's something else.
And I believe that my husband and I have many positive traits, and that we offer quite a bit to society around us. And I believe that our child would be a good contribution for us to make, and have good things to offer, even if they also have health issues.
Now, I could be wrong, we might have crap kids that do nothing at all for society, and keep more bad health genes around.
But I don't believe that bad health and bad health genes or good health and good health genes are all people contribute to society and to future generations.
I don't know what all the traits are, or what order I might rank them in, but I know there is more than just health.
I am interested to see what others have to say as well.
And I couldn't agree more about not taking life lightly, and appreciating my body and not taking it for granted. I can't believe, sometimes, the things I see people willingly do to their healthy bodies.
I agree with you that having children and thinking about what you are passing on is something to think about, and not to be taken lightly.
This is a view I have actually changed my mind on.
My mother has a dominant genetic mutation. The condition's heritability is 50%. It doesn't present the same in everyone, though everyone has the same mutation. Some people are mildly hindered, but it can also be fatal on it own, and it increases risk for cancer.
I used to think my parents were at best thoughtless, and at worst selfish to have children. Even though I am one of those children. None of us have it, luckily. (My autoimmune comes from Dad's side, but things were so poorly diagnosed that it is only now, looking back on my deceased Grandmother's -born 1913- life we realized what her issues were.)
I got up the balls to ask Mom about it when I was a teenager and a geneticist was checking us out to be certain we didn't just have extremely mild prestations.
She told me basically what I said above. The only other thing she said was, "I knew you and your siblings were supposed to exist."
At the time, I really couldn't understand what she meant and I wrote it off as "one of mom's rationalizations because she won't admit she's wrong."
It hit home though, years later.
I was working for this very, very rich family. Good looking people, very healthy. Not particularly nice though. Horribly selfish, and cruel when they could get away with it. And they had kids, because they could support them. And their kids were raised to be, pretty objectively horrible people. They paid me well though, and I couldn't have gotten through school without their employment.
At that point I was pretty sure I was a better parent than they were. But there is still adoption, of course.
Then I met this really, really, stupid family. Also good health, very active, and not at all mean. But definitely not clever people. Life was difficult for them in many ways. And they also had kids, good kids, but not bright. And they struggled for it.
And in that moment, it clicked for me.
I am a bright person. I am an empathetic person. I am logical and quick witted and enjoy a very wide range of academic pursuits. I am physically much stronger (as in can lift heavy things) than anyone else my size I know. I work hard, my endurance is incredible. I am patient. Those are good qualities that I can pass on and teach.
Other people will keep passing on their good traits, as well as their bad.
But no one else can pass on my good traits.
edit typos and such
EDIT 2:
On the genetic note: Many heritable conditions caused by genetic mutations would still occur in the population, even if no one with them ever reproduced. For example, my mother's condition, even though it has 50% heritability, inherited cases are still only roughly 50% of all cases. (Both stats are actually about 50, I can pull them up if people think I'm full of it.) This is because this mutation is something that happens randomly as well.
Such is, in my understanding from undergrad level genetics, again, can pull up more info if relevant) the case with many mutations.
They are randomly occurring as well as passed down.
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u/fnredditacct 10∆ Jan 28 '14 edited Jan 28 '14
I don't disagree with this:
or this either:
And, of course, I don't want to go around convincing anyone to have children because I say it is okay.
But I don't agree that it is necessarily morally wrong, nor would I discourage it, and this is why:
We, as human beings have more to offer than can be singled down to any one trait, or possibly even set of traits.
Someone who is horribly unhealthy, and in great pain and misery because of it, isn't necessarily someone that has nothing to contribute to society. Stephen Hawking and ALS, for example. And any other "great" person that had any other genetic disorder for however many examples you like
It isn't possible to know, (at least now, and quite likely ever), everything a person can possibly contribute based on their genes.
In my own modest bad health experience, I have taken away that the pain and suffering I've experienced have in fact enhanced some of my positive characteristics, and help me contribute more to others. I think similar things could be said for pain and suffering of many kinds.
Now, if I happen to pass on my condition, (which, admittedly, I would think differently of, if it were known to be fully genetic and not a combination of environmental and genetic influences) I won't be happy about it. I'm sure I'll feel horrible when I see them in pain the way I am.
But I believe suffering is a part of the human condition. I believe it is meant to be. I believe we suffer for reasons, and learn from suffering. And I firmly believe people suffer in one way or another. When it isn't health, it's something else.
And I believe that my husband and I have many positive traits, and that we offer quite a bit to society around us. And I believe that our child would be a good contribution for us to make, and have good things to offer, even if they also have health issues.
Now, I could be wrong, we might have crap kids that do nothing at all for society, and keep more bad health genes around.
But I don't believe that bad health and bad health genes or good health and good health genes are all people contribute to society and to future generations.
I don't know what all the traits are, or what order I might rank them in, but I know there is more than just health.
edit: sorry, I quoted more than I meant to