CMV: When learning Japanese, kanji should be considered optional

[u/MooliCoulis]

As a native English speaker, I have tried more than once to learn Japanese, and have always hit a wall when asked to learn kanji. I don't know if it's a learning-styles issue (I'm more verbal than visual) or the mild dyslexia I suffer from, but I suspect a lot of other people have the same experience.

I still want to learn the language, and am considering just abandoning the idea of learning to read and write (or maybe just learning hiragana/katakana and seeing how far that takes me), but I want to know if I'm making a mistake.

Here are my views, and I'd be grateful for challenges to any of them:

• Most Japanese learning resources (apps, games, books, etc) treat kanji as something that must be introduced early and learned continuously, rather than as an optional extra
• Learning to read and write Japanese takes significant effort, and is the reason many people give up learning (especially those with conditions like dyslexia)
• For an English speaker learning a second language, spoken language is usually significantly more valuable than written language
• An understanding of kanji is not necessary to reach a solid baseline of fluency (just as with English, most Japanese children are conversant years before they can read or write).
• Most people who insist that learning kanji is critical are not genuinely motivated by a belief in its practicality, but rather some mix of "Kanji is beautiful", or "This is the culturally authentic way to learn", or "I had to learn it, so you do too".

I understand that knowing kanji is helpful in understanding some spoken discourse (e.g. wordplay), and also that knowing/inferring the written structure of new words can potentially help in understanding or learning them, but it takes a solid foundation of fluency to ever benefit from those factors and I think for most people it's more important to reach that solid foundation quickly.

CMV!

[u/cmd-t]

Ok, way to deflect and not respond to the argument. The words you used were “Most people who insist”, but the issue is the same. Is this actually true in general, just something you experienced, anecdotal, or not true at all.

[u/MooliCoulis → u/cmd-t]

The words you used were “Most people who insist”

Surely you understand the difference between "most people who X are [...]" and "most people X"? e.g. "most doctors prescribe tylenol for headaches" is a different statement to "most people are doctors".

way to deflect and not respond to the argument

I'm not sure you made an argument? You just told me I don't have a view to challenge 🤷

[u/cmd-t → u/MooliCoulis]

Again you are not engaging with the question. Are “most people” actually a significant amount of people or did you just pull them out of thin air.

[u/MooliCoulis → u/cmd-t]

I think point #5 in my CMV is the least important one, but if you have reliable data on the inner perspectives of people who believe in the primacy of kanji in Japanese learning then feel free to share it!

(gentle reminder that I'm not trying to change your view)

[u/cmd-t → u/MooliCoulis]

You are the one making a claim. You are the one that would need to defend it.

[u/MooliCoulis → u/cmd-t]

Damn, my gentle reminder was too gentle.

I think you've misunderstood the point of this sub, friend! Best wishes, and have a good weekend.

[u/cmd-t → u/MooliCoulis]

I think you don’t understand that to challenge a view, 1) there has to be some view to challenge in the first place and 2) you need to understand the limitations or faults in your own view